General Coolant hose ~ damage / holed

[Tazzieman]

@Mules sounds like you were having a nice picnic - and then the ants turned up.
Glad you got out alive.
When I got my Grenadier I crawled under at night with a torch to inspect the maze of pipes and pipe clamps/clips.
I found 2 hoses touching and another very close to that fan shroud.
Needless to say I popped a short sleeve of split conduit over the vulnerable hoses.
And a mental note to get underneath and check regularly. If any of those clips breaks off, ants might wreck the picnic.

 

[Mules]

@Mules sounds like you were having a nice picnic - and then the ants turned up.
Glad you got out alive.
When I got my Grenadier I crawled under at night with a torch to inspect the maze of pipes and pipe clamps/clips.
I found 2 hoses touching and another very close to that fan shroud.
Needless to say I popped a short sleeve of split conduit over the vulnerable hoses.
And a mental note to get underneath and check regularly. If any of those clips breaks off, ants might wreck the picnic.

Prudent measures Tazzieman! I will be doing exactly the same before heading into the woods again... don't recommend the ants option..

 

[AWo]

Well,

Had set off for the Brindabella's for a weekend some weeks back with my 3 year old daughter. The truck was going great, after some convincing getting into low range and subsequently locking the centre diff (how cheap does that high/low lever ball feel??), the truck was performing really very smoothly in some good, steep 4WD tracks. Took me a bit to get used to the auto gearbox, but ultimately felt very planted and was certainly smooth in negotiating the terrain.

After a good half day of meandering in low range and a big smile on the face, we pulled up not far from McIntyre's camp ground in some high country where I noticed coolant dripping from right side of the bash plate. Cursed myself for not having my armoury of tools and spares that I'd ordinarily take with my older Landy. After graciously receiving some basics from passers-by, I taped up the leak - stemming from a coolant hose that intersected with at least one other coolant hose, and neatly resting against the fan shroud! Made a mess of the engine bay, having sprayed all over the front of it - making it difficult to pinpoint the leak, let alone confirm there was only one.

Anyway cleaned it up best I could and on went the gaffer tape - no obvious leak the next morning and so set off cautiously the way we came. A couple of stops and inspections later, the leak resumes - the tape wasn't a match for the pressure (not that it was a great tape job, but being slimy with coolant and in an awkward spot made things tricky). Subsequent help from other good folk in the trails saw the leak stemmed by way of a tyre plug inserted into the hole, which when the coolant/pipe heated up, created a very effective seal (combined with electrical tape to hold it all together). Some of the coolant I had captured and put back in by way of the LHS expansion tank (which I later learned is the lower of the 'two' ). Didn't seem to be below the min, so thought we were safe.

Headed downhill for another km, no issues. Inspected hoses and coolant level at Flea Creek , all seemed OK. Started steep climb back out along the Gentle Annie towards Brindabella Road, few hundred metres in and engine temps rose right up to 130°C.. pulled over and switched off... long story short, took us 4 hours to get up to Brindabella Road. We could go a few hundred meters, then have to pull over and let cool for anywhere between 10-30 min... after that one could make another good dash before the temps starting hitting the top of the gauge again. Temp warning appeared multiple times, but I never sought to push beyond that lest I invited limp mode - or indeed engine damage.

We had to get higher to get any reliable mobile comms, at which point Ineos' recovery was eventually called (and thanks to the RFS btw for making a call home). While waiting for the flat bed, a large convoy passed, at the back of it was a striking blue Grenadier belonging to Rob Wilson - a real gentleman, and check out his truck if you ever get the chance, that pop top is something else!! As the tow truck didn't have an easy solution for kids riding in the cab, Rob gave us a lift down the hill and a long day came to an end.

4X4 Garage were right on it once the truck arrived the next day, and by Tues it was ready for pick up. The mechanic made a temporary fix while the genuine part is on order. The overheating was likely a combination of coolant loss, coolant flow obstruction (tyre plug reducing flow rate), and the introduction of air into the system.

I remain not thrilled with the arrangement and security of the coolant hoses. For context, I recently finished replacing/rebuilding the entire coolant system on my 300tdi Defender. Those familiar with those engines know how finniky the cooling system can be, but now looking at it it strikes me as being pretty simple/robust in comparison. In fact, there are a bunch of wires/cables underneath the Grenadier that I think need more thought put towards their placement/security.

Anyway, I expected teething problems and unfortunately found one. I expect more. Finding and fixing them methodically I hope will produce a reliable remote travel vehicle. It's otherwise an astounding piece of engineering and a rewarding leap of faith to be a part of.

My only other gripe is that I well and truly fall into the camp of "this left footrest is an issue"... can't wait until someone braver than me takes to it with an angle grinder and proves there is a remedy. I'm astounded Jim accepted it, being tall and lanky himself.

Engine bay pic is following the repair unfortunately, showing some intermediary pipe work on the left, and the rough location of the rub point circled on the right... obviously not the first to have this issue. I've inspected several other Grenadiers since and none seem to have pipework quite so close to the radiator fan shroud, which is positive. Guess they missed it on the PDI..

Didn't the ECU went into emergency mode reducing the power to prevent overheating?

AWo

 

[NQ94]

@Mules sounds like you were having a nice picnic - and then the ants turned up.
Glad you got out alive.
When I got my Grenadier I crawled under at night with a torch to inspect the maze of pipes and pipe clamps/clips.
I found 2 hoses touching and another very close to that fan shroud.
Needless to say I popped a short sleeve of split conduit over the vulnerable hoses.
And a mental note to get underneath and check regularly. If any of those clips breaks off, ants might wreck the picnic.

Be very careful with split tube conduit on radiator hoses it tends to hold dirt and wear the hose before it wears the conduit. These day I find wrapping the hose at the rub points with larger coolant hose held in place with cable ties or use a braided product on the two rubbing hoses called TechFlex from the auto electrical side of the industry. TechFlex is expensive but is a better product then split tube conduit.

 

[Tazzieman]

Be very careful with split tube conduit on radiator hoses it tends to hold dirt and wear the hose before it wears the conduit. These day I find wrapping the hose at the rub points with larger coolant hose held in place with cable ties or use a braided product on the two rubbing hoses called TechFlex from the auto electrical side of the industry. TechFlex is expensive but is a better product then split tube conduit.

Thanks for the TechFlex heads up; mine was a quick preventative, and I will point out the hose problems to the service agent as soon as I can get near.

 

[Mules]

Didn't the ECU went into emergency mode reducing the power to prevent overheating?

AWo

Negative AWo, I was expecting this to occur. Perhaps if I had pushed any harder... what was evident was that the system was trying very hard to cool itself.

 

[NQ94]

Thanks for the TechFlex heads up; mine was a quick preventative, and I will point out the hose problems to the service agent as soon as I can get near.

TechFlex and similar products work well they're a thin wall product that take up less space and there are split versions that can be installed on already fitted wiring and hoses. It comes in various temperature ratings normally 120°C will suffice for most applications. One of the main advantages is that due to being a braided product a person can stretch it to inspect wiring and hoses and dirt can easily be washed from it. Split tube conduit has a tendency to hold dirt and can wear into wire insulation and soft hoses and damage can be missed on inspections. Automotive split tube conduit is ok and will be used for a long time to come due to cost but it is being replaced by better products in the automotive industry.
Some of the best off road preventative maintenance advice comes from the techs that work in the vocational transport industries like rubbish trucks, refuse dumps, logging, quarries and mines. These people will see some of the most abusive vehicle and machine use and extreme operating conditions that a vehicle can be exposed to on a daily basis and this advise can help the four wheel drive owner.

 

[AWo]

Negative AWo, I was expecting this to occur. Perhaps if I had pushed any harder... what was evident was that the system was trying very hard to cool itself.

Thanks.

AWo

 

[A sweaty Grenadier]

Grenadier kms: 1200 location: Western Australia, My coolant leak:
Took the dogs to the dog beach on Sunday (no 4x4ing) and got back home, parked in the garage and was cleaning the inside out when I heard a ‘depressurisation’ of fluid under and saw it was light green, continued to leak for a few minutes and stopped. I waited for the car to cool down than got underneath and tried locating the leak which was difficult and still not 100% sure, leak is on the LHS where some sort of cooler is next to the transmission but above the 2 hoses to the small cooler, I believe the leak is coming from the hose above the 2 hoses going to the small cooler looks like and I’m unsure of the hose but I believe it’s 1/2” or 5/8” hose running from somewhere in the engine bay (LHS) to back towards the transmission and runs near top of the transmission/bellhousing (this hose was not properly secured and was just contacting and resting on the transmission and other parts) , I’ll post photos of leak but was very limited with space under the car (I could either look up to try find the source or put one arm/hand up to feel around)

Also: looking under the grenadier LHS there is a hose that runs over a mount with a large protective thing around it that I’m guessing is suppose to stop the hose from contacting the mount but for whatever reason the protective bit had moved and the hose was contacting the mount and there was several other hoses that were rubbing/contacting other parts.

Sorry about the long post/comment and if I have got any information incorrect.

 

[Mules]

Grenadier kms: 1200 location: Western Australia, My coolant leak:
Took the dogs to the dog beach on Sunday (no 4x4ing) and got back home, parked in the garage and was cleaning the inside out when I heard a ‘depressurisation’ of fluid under and saw it was light green, continued to leak for a few minutes and stopped. I waited for the car to cool down than got underneath and tried locating the leak which was difficult and still not 100% sure, leak is on the LHS where some sort of cooler is next to the transmission but above the 2 hoses to the small cooler, I believe the leak is coming from the hose above the 2 hoses going to the small cooler looks like and I’m unsure of the hose but I believe it’s 1/2” or 5/8” hose running from somewhere in the engine bay (LHS) to back towards the transmission and runs near top of the transmission/bellhousing (this hose was not properly secured and was just contacting and resting on the transmission and other parts) , I’ll post photos of leak but was very limited with space under the car (I could either look up to try find the source or put one arm/hand up to feel around)

Also: looking under the grenadier LHS there is a hose that runs over a mount with a large protective thing around it that I’m guessing is suppose to stop the hose from contacting the mount but for whatever reason the protective bit had moved and the hose was contacting the mount and there was several other hoses that were rubbing/contacting other parts.

Sorry about the long post/comment and if I have got any information incorrect.

Sorry to hear mate, sounds like poorly-secured hoses strike again! If you can pin-point the location that would be great, we can add it to the growing list of hose portions requiring TechFlex or similar.

Thankfully you were lucky enough to make it home before it sprung, still a great buggerance however.

 

[MrMike]

Grenadier kms: 1200 location: Western Australia, My coolant leak:
Took the dogs to the dog beach on Sunday (no 4x4ing) and got back home, parked in the garage and was cleaning the inside out when I heard a ‘depressurisation’ of fluid under and saw it was light green, continued to leak for a few minutes and stopped. I waited for the car to cool down than got underneath and tried locating the leak which was difficult and still not 100% sure, leak is on the LHS where some sort of cooler is next to the transmission but above the 2 hoses to the small cooler, I believe the leak is coming from the hose above the 2 hoses going to the small cooler looks like and I’m unsure of the hose but I believe it’s 1/2” or 5/8” hose running from somewhere in the engine bay (LHS) to back towards the transmission and runs near top of the transmission/bellhousing (this hose was not properly secured and was just contacting and resting on the transmission and other parts) , I’ll post photos of leak but was very limited with space under the car (I could either look up to try find the source or put one arm/hand up to feel around)

Also: looking under the grenadier LHS there is a hose that runs over a mount with a large protective thing around it that I’m guessing is suppose to stop the hose from contacting the mount but for whatever reason the protective bit had moved and the hose was contacting the mount and there was several other hoses that were rubbing/contacting other parts.

Sorry about the long post/comment and if I have got any information incorrect.

I saw this on FB (I'm part of the WA group) have you found the issue yet? Were the techs at Magic any help?

 

[A sweaty Grenadier]

I saw this on FB (I'm part of the WA group) have you found the issue yet? Were the techs at Magic any help?

Not yet, grenadier has been at the dealer for 3 days (4 if you include tow day) I have been calling up daily and been told along the lines of they are communicating with INEOS HQ on the leak with diagnosising? And rectifying it. Not a fan of the answer, I do how ever understand the dealership seems to be relatively new but would like a better communication standard.

 

[MrMike]

Not yet, grenadier has been at the dealer for 3 days (4 if you include tow day) I have been calling up daily and been told along the lines of they are communicating with INEOS HQ on the leak with diagnosising? And rectifying it. Not a fan of the answer, I do how ever understand the dealership seems to be relatively new but would like a better communication standard.

Yes, they are under the pump ATM and the dealer principal is hopefully onto it. I was in there a few weeks ago and since then they have had a change of staff (workshop manager etc)

 

[OGrid]

Also: looking under the grenadier LHS there is a hose that runs over a mount with a large protective thing around it that I’m guessing is suppose to stop the hose from contacting the mount but for whatever reason the protective bit had moved and the hose was contacting the mount and there was several other hoses that were rubbing/contacting other parts.

Sorry about the long post/comment and if I have got any information incorrect.

This seems similar to the situation I encountered.

I’m overdue to post on my experience and I’ll do so now.

 

[OGrid]

On 18 November I picked up my new Grenadier from the dealer.

While driving back home the engine fan started to work hard which surprised me, as it only a mild temp. About 10km later and 30km into the journey home the info system and centre console thew a ‘Warning’ engine temp message. Approximately 20 seconds later it threw an ‘Error‘ message on both consoles and then shut the engine down…I coasted to the side of the road and parked.

Went all over the engine bay, no signs of a leak. When the engine later cooled down drove the short distance to my house and went over and under the car. No signs of a leak. I contacted the roadside assistance, who also couldn’t find any leak.

The engine bay has two coolant reservoirs, both located at the back of the engine bay, away from the radiator at the front - one on the left and one on the right on the bay. Both rather difficult to see the coolant level. I had to use a knife as an impromptu dipstick and identified the coolant reservoir on the left was empty. Nothing. Not a drop.

The vehicle was flat bed trucked back to the dealer. I had to organise everything and was a good test of the support process in Australia (for me it failed badly).

The dealer identified that there was a hose split in the coolant system. I saw the hose, it was split from the inside. I was told, but can find no reference to this hose, that the hose runs between the two coolant reservoirs in the engine bay. The dealer’s chief mechanic couldn’t find the source of the issue either initially, which made me feel a little better. They only identified the leak by filling the coolant system again and running the engine. And behold, a spray behind the engine bay in an area I’m told is very difficult to get to and was a significant undertaking to replace - certainly not a field replacement we can do by the sounds of it.

I’ll provide the job details below that I was provided with…

- removed OSF inner guard and wheel arch to gain access to pipe
- removed exhaust
- removed gearbox support and lowered rear of gearbox
- inspected pipe that runs over gearbox
- removed gearbox cooler
- removed coolant pipe and identified split
- Identified pipe split from inside out
- replaced pipe, topped up coolant, pressure tested

Part #: GRA2B12009210 Coolant Hose

 

[Zacman110]

On 18 November I picked up my new Grenadier from the dealer.

While driving back home the engine fan started to work hard which surprised me, as it only a mild temp. About 10km later and 30km into the journey home the info system and centre console thew a ‘Warning’ engine temp message. Approximately 20 seconds later it threw an ‘Error‘ message on both consoles and then shut the engine down…I coasted to the side of the road and parked.

Went all over the engine bay, no signs of a leak. When the engine later cooled down drop the short distance to my house and went over and under the care. No signs of a leak. I contacted the roadside assistance, who also couldn’t find any leak.

The engine bay has two coolant reservoirs, both located at the back of the engine bay, away from the radiator at the front - one on the left and one on the right on the bay. Both rather difficult to see the coolant level. I had to use a knife as an impromptu dipstick and identified the coolant reservoir on the left was empty. Nothing. Not a drop.

The vehicle was flat bed trucked back to the dealer. I had to organise everything and was a good test of the support process in Australia (for me it failed badly).

The dealer identified that there was a hose split in the coolant system. I saw the hose, it was split from the inside. I was told, but can find no reference to this hose, that the hose runs between the two coolant reservoirs in the engine bay. The dealer’s chief mechanic couldn’t find the source of the issue either initially, which made me feel a little better. They only identified the leak by filling the coolant system again and running the engine. And behold, a spray behind the engine bay in an area I’m told is very difficult to get to and was a significant undertaking to replace - certainly not a field replacement we can do by the sounds of it.

I’ll provide the job details below that I was provided with…

- removed OSF inner guard and wheel arch to gain access to pipe
- removed exhaust
- removed gearbox support and lowered rear of gearbox
- inspected pipe that runs over gearbox
- removed gearbox cooler
- removed coolant pipe and identified split
- Identified pipe split from inside out
- replaced pipe, topped up coolant, pressure tested

Part #: GRA2B12009210 Coolant Hose

There may be an aftermarket opportunity for a low coolant alarm! Big in the old defender space for sure.

 

[Tazzieman]

Well that's brightened up all our days, not!

 

[MrMike]

This seems similar to the situation I encountered.

I’m overdue to post on my experience and I’ll do so now.

I think its the same hose by the sounds of it.

 

[255/85]

There may be an aftermarket opportunity for a low coolant alarm! Big in the old defender space for sure.

If it's the only routing possible then a fixed hard line with easily replaceable soft connections at either end or maybe high quality industrial pressure lines are needed.

Inaccessible coolant lines are a big no-no in my book. If you've got to tilt or drop a major drivetrain component just to do a yearly inspection then the temptation to overlook regular maintenance becomes too great. It smacks of being a hurried or unfinished engine bay.

 

[AnD3rew]

On 18 November I picked up my new Grenadier from the dealer.

While driving back home the engine fan started to work hard which surprised me, as it only a mild temp. About 10km later and 30km into the journey home the info system and centre console thew a ‘Warning’ engine temp message. Approximately 20 seconds later it threw an ‘Error‘ message on both consoles and then shut the engine down…I coasted to the side of the road and parked.

Went all over the engine bay, no signs of a leak. When the engine later cooled down drove the short distance to my house and went over and under the car. No signs of a leak. I contacted the roadside assistance, who also couldn’t find any leak.

The engine bay has two coolant reservoirs, both located at the back of the engine bay, away from the radiator at the front - one on the left and one on the right on the bay. Both rather difficult to see the coolant level. I had to use a knife as an impromptu dipstick and identified the coolant reservoir on the left was empty. Nothing. Not a drop.

The vehicle was flat bed trucked back to the dealer. I had to organise everything and was a good test of the support process in Australia (for me it failed badly).

The dealer identified that there was a hose split in the coolant system. I saw the hose, it was split from the inside. I was told, but can find no reference to this hose, that the hose runs between the two coolant reservoirs in the engine bay. The dealer’s chief mechanic couldn’t find the source of the issue either initially, which made me feel a little better. They only identified the leak by filling the coolant system again and running the engine. And behold, a spray behind the engine bay in an area I’m told is very difficult to get to and was a significant undertaking to replace - certainly not a field replacement we can do by the sounds of it.

I’ll provide the job details below that I was provided with…

- removed OSF inner guard and wheel arch to gain access to pipe
- removed exhaust
- removed gearbox support and lowered rear of gearbox
- inspected pipe that runs over gearbox
- removed gearbox cooler
- removed coolant pipe and identified split
- Identified pipe split from inside out
- replaced pipe, topped up coolant, pressure tested

Part #: GRA2B12009210 Coolant Hose

This stuff is one of the few things that actually worry me about remote travel in these cars. A holed hose in itself isn’t a disaster, but a hose you can’t see and a hose you can’t access without major mechanical work is worry.