Sorry buddy, I didn’t mean any offence & I’m not trying to tarnish everybody with the same brush here (there’s always exceptions to the rule of course). I personally don’t see many new Defenders like yours, most of the one’s I see on the roads (& I must add that they seem to be absolutely everywhere where I live) are the blinged out posing mobiles that will likely never ever see a dirt track; plus, anybody I’ve spoken to who has bought one for actual off-road or utility use has had nothing but problems & has regretted their purchase (which rings totally true to me as I had these same issues myself with the Discovery Sport).
That's absolutely true and people complain about that seem to live out of the contemporary world... BTW many of us use to own or still own an old Defender. I must admit that I spent some time (in 2017) to decide to follow the Grenadier project or to invest 20-30.000 euro in improving my Def. I must admit, without any shame, that to get something in the same philosophy of Defender not just improved in the basics, but with some creature comforts and some pieces of modernity, appeals me. It's very fancy to declare yourself faithful of plain vanilla old Defender, but spending every day many kms in your car, to be able to make a call in a quiet environment or to be able to listen a Mahler symphony with good quality detracts nothing from the great tough and pure qualities of the Grenadier... When I switch from a Td5 to a Td4 it seemed a heresy (like to switch from a Series to a Defender), but to get a decent a/c instead of the under windshield flaps, or real rear seats instead of the benches was a great improvement for people using a car not just as a toy...
There’s lots of irony and projection in this reply, with all due respect. This could be a case study on cognitive dissonance, lol.Because you can’t really compare the two (anyone who has seen a Grenadier in the flesh & had the pleasure of driving one will know this). The Grenadier is in a whole other league in terms of build quality than anything that has ever bourne the Land Rover badge (the only thing that could possibly come close is an old G-Class but, as an owner with real experience of the car, that’s even beat by the Gren in my opinion).
On top of this the new Defender is an SUV with some electronically controlled off-road features/gimmicks (a posers vehicle & nothing more if we’re being totally honest); the Grenadier is a true old-skool 4x4 & software issues do not inhibit it’s performance when it comes to driving. I can live with a few overly sensitive warning messages flashing on the screen from time-to-time - I cannot live with a car that will have a hissy-fit, switch into limp mode, prevent me from driving properly & cost me a fortune in continual repair bills that don’t ever really fix anything.
Those who want an SUV for the school & shopping mall runs that they can kit out with useless street-cred accessories (like big plastic side boxes that look like Beats headphones), put their seat in sports-car position & race around the roads breaking the speed-limit will most certainly want the Defender & will despise the Grenadier. Those who want a reliable, take anywhere, last years, built-like-a-tank, true off-roader will be smitten with the Grenadier & never even consider the Defender regardless of what rubbish corporate shills like Harry Metcalfe try to push on people. They’re totally different cars which are built for totally different purposes & for totally different types of people; it’s moronic to compare the two if you ask me. Would you compare a Tesla Model S to a Dodge Charger SRT (tried to make my comparison make sense to those of you on the other side of the pond there).
I also don’t see why you take issue with the option of adding heating seats etc? For many of us this car is (or will be) a daily driver & a few creature comforts make it a nicer experience without inhibiting the performance of the vehicle in any way; plus, if you don’t want them then simply don’t option them!?
We’ll have to beg to differ my friend. I own a Grenadier (have done for about a month now) & my previous car was a modern Land Rover so nothing I’m saying regarding quality is speculative as it comes from real-world experience. I also think the main difference here is that when you talk about quality you’re talking about interior surface finishing materials like plastic trim; when I talk about quality I’m talking about the actual mechanical aspects of the vehicle. Compare what’s under the bonnet, under the wheel arches or the underside of the vehicle & you’ll see what I mean. Again, different vehicles for different needs & I’m not questioning people choosing a Defender, I’m just questioning the continual comparisons & the attempts to trash the Grenadier by using these apples for oranges comparisons.
I totally understand your perspective dude & respect your opinion. For me though the Grenadier does not miss mark & I couldn’t be happier with my new vehicle (don’t ask me about my experience with the agent though as that has been utterly atrocious). My whole reason for answering you like I did was because you said you didn’t understand why people would chose the Grenadier & not just go for the Defender; therefore, I was trying to explain this from the perspective of those of us whom have …all meant with the best of intentions.
I mean, if we’re narrowing the goalposts on what “build quality” is, should we first pay recognition to both the L663 and IG having BMW engines? Both sharing the same ZF 8 speed transmission? Both using largely aluminum body construction?
No, I’ve been a passenger on a fairly long trip in one. Its a nice car for sure. But its a car not a truck.
The theft thing is weird and inexplicably seems to be a non existent issue w/ the L663 in the US. Here Hyundais and Kias are uninsurable.
How can you criticize a vehicle’s capability if you’ve never sat in the drivers seat, yet alone taken it off road yourself?
Ha. I would never have bought one under normal circumstances either. I needed something as a stop-gap while waiting for my Grenadier though & thought it was a sensible choice as it would be easy to move on. Certainly glad to see the back of it!
"My perfect grenadier would have the same build, axles, transmission etc. Same interior but ditch the bits that were designed by the lawyers. I.e. Ditch the wont drive with door open, ditch the diff lock engagement system, ditch the off road mode and just have each system on a driver decides setting. Ditch the plastic bumpers, (I’ll be doing that anyway at some point.)
PS - Harry's reviews on Grenadier really bizarre I think
FYI. it will drive with the door open, it just won’t drive with both the door open AND the seatbelt unbuckled.
I’m not criticising its capability. Its clearly very capable. But I want solid axles, manually operated diff locks, and a vehicle thats easy to customise. The commercial version that my friend has got is actually quite small in the load area, smaller than the grenadier with the seats down, let alone the 2 seat Gren.
