Fusilier On Hold???

[holdmybeer]

And the CAFE quotas?

I’m not an expert in CAFE. Perhaps modify output to target an exemption (e.g. crank up the GVWR?) or a low-volume boutique exemption if that still exists or else just pay the CAFE fines and price it in. It’s a niche market so IA can play to the regulations in ways a big manufacturer would not consider.

It’s an expensive low volume vehicle and I assume it always will be. Is paying CAFE fines and carrying on with the Grenadier and QM an option?

 

[CrazyOldMan]

I’m not an expert in CAFE. Perhaps modify output to target an exemption (e.g. crank up the GVWR?) or a low-volume boutique exemption if that still exists or else just pay the CAFE fines and price it in. It’s a niche market so IA can play to the regulations in ways a big manufacturer would not consider.

It’s an expensive low volume vehicle and I assume it always will be. Is paying CAFE fines and carrying on with the Grenadier and QM an option?

I’m not an expert either - I don’t think weight is an option (I think the heavy duty threshold is 8000 lbs) - and I THINK they took away the option to simply pay the fines (I ran the numbers - it would be about $2k/vehicle). It used to be that manufacturers could buy out with penalty payments but I think that’s been changed. I think they HAVE to comply, but can get temporary delays. Again, I’m not an expert so not totally sure. If that’s the case (I think it is but not positive), then we should expect to see some sort of much higher volume EV/hybrid model - somewhere at some point. And to be much higher volume, I would expect lower price, rack-and-pinion, independent front suspension, and if Europe won’t accept the range extender, I expect to see them run that through North America. Who knows - maybe they’ll go Canadian with Magna International ;o)

 

[MRO]

I’m not sure where you’re getting your information but it’s well publicized that Ineos hit their 2024 sales goals with the Grenadier. Keep in mind that, in the U.S. at least, the company hasn’t run a single ad yet - not one single ad. I don’t think they’re panicking about Grenadier orders at IA corporate just yet.

As for the Quartermaster, how have you determined that they’re not selling well? They’re not even in wide release in most markets. Can you cite some automotive sales data to back up your claims? If not, then please consider that the rest of your post is most likely based on a wholly incorrect assumption.

As for the suggestion to abandon the basic design tenets for IFS and rack and pinion steering - that would be a HARD NO from the dedicated 4x4 crowd. The Grenadier was not intended to compete with a minivan or even a LC100. Its purpose designed to be a no frills, reliable off-roader first and foremost. It lacks cup holders and rear seat TV screens for a reason. The lack of cup holders wasn’t an oversight. You seem to be under some wrong headed illusion that the Grenadier is a luxury vehicle or a soccer mom flex. It’s not and it wasn’t supposed to be.

Regarding the “low quality spec of things”, I strongly disagree. (If you don’t like the wipers, it’s a $30 investment to swap them out.). My wipers work great. Come to think of it, I’ve never seen an automotive review, for any vehicle, mention the quality of the wipers. What is wrong with the wipers?

I find the quality of the plastic bits, switches, knobs, the fit and finish, etc., to be as good or better than my 2022 Tundra, 2007 LX470, 2022 Bronco (by a long shot!!!) The weight of the vehicle alone depicts the quality of the build. Have you opened and closed the door on a Grenadier? There is nothing low-quality-spec about it.

I’m very curious on how you obtained your Quarter Master sales information. Can you please cite some reliable sales data for the Quartermaster?

Thanks for the comments:
The very weak used prices in the UK (I believe mirrored in Europe) as well as plenty of photos of available stock elsewhere do not suggest strong sales. I haven't seen any data suggesting strong sales v the production targets but please do share if you have.

This in turn suggests that, while an excellent vehicle in so many ways, its appeal is narrow. While I love mine, many friends with similar off road biased use cases have rejected it even after extended loans and use Defenders and are looking at the new LC250.

The LC 100 had live axle as well as IFS variants. I would keep the current offer, but, as I suggested, add options (IFS, higher output engines) to broaden its appeal.

I am not being negative in any way. I want the brand to succeed. I would rather they concentrate on getting this product right for the market, creating sustainable volumes, rather than spreading themselves thin over multiple models.

 

[DaveB]

This. Why bother? The Grenadier is a midsized SUV with live axles and a stout frame that you drive and treat like a truck … it has relatively few peers. But little electric SUVs that drive like well behaved cars are already or will soon be dime-a-dozen. IA should drop the Fusilier and focus on unique vehicles IMO.

I agree they need to focus.
However keep in mind that the Grenadier is only a mid sized SUV in North America.
For the rest of the world it is a large or full size SUV.
No doubt they will need to start building some dedicated NA product, in or near NA.
Maybe that will lead to a larger NA only version.
Station Wagon body on the Quartermaster stretched chassis??
Wider track with extended wheel arches??

Jeep has shown with the Wrangler these types of options

 

[DaveB]

Thanks for the comments:
The very weak used prices in the UK (I believe mirrored in Europe) as well as plenty of photos of available stock elsewhere do not suggest strong sales. I haven't seen any data suggesting strong sales v the production targets but please do share if you have.

This in turn suggests that, while an excellent vehicle in so many ways, its appeal is narrow. While I love mine, many friends with similar off road biased use cases have rejected it even after extended loans and use Defenders and are looking at the new LC250.

The LC 100 had live axle as well as IFS variants. I would keep the current offer, but, as I suggested, add options (IFS, higher output engines) to broaden its appeal.

I am not being negative in any way. I want the brand to succeed. I would rather they concentrate on getting this product right for the market, creating sustainable volumes, rather than spreading themselves thin over multiple models.

The UK 4WD market seems very different to the majority of the rest of the world.
Green laning and mud doesn't seem to be the Grenadiers best use cases to me.
On the other hand towing and nostalgia markets are higher but very limited in numbers.
Grenadier doesn't really tow any better than the other SUV's you have mentioned and doesn't have the other positive features either.
Sadly I can't see the UK ever being a big market for the Grenadier.

 

[Tom D]

The UK 4WD market seems very different to the majority of the rest of the world.
Green laning and mud doesn't seem to be the Grenadiers best use cases to me.
On the other hand towing and nostalgia markets are higher but very limited in numbers.
Grenadier doesn't really tow any better than the other SUV's you have mentioned and doesn't have the other positive features either.
Sadly I can't see the UK ever being a big market for the Grenadier.

I'll agree with your conclusion: the grenadier won't be a big seller here in the UK. However I think its a fantastic tow vehicle, better than anything else I have tried.

 

[landmannnn]

Sadly I can't see the UK ever being a big market for the Grenadier.

The big market in the UK for larger 4x4's is for well off mums to ferry their kids to school. The IG is not aimed at them, so agreed it won't bother the best seller list.

 

[Max]

China has this clone already. GWM Tank

 

[holdmybeer]

China has this clone already. GWM Tank

That’s actually less ugly than the Fusilier IMO.

 

[Aussie Battler]

However, other countries have invested in renewables and don't rely on burning coal to produce electricity.
Just recently, Spanish electricity prices went negative due to excess renewable electricity production.

Here in Victoria and South Australia the governments have made renewable power the main source of energy , power prices have more than doubled in the last 5 years .

 

[Aussie Battler]

Unfortunately most of the politicians and lobbyists making these decisions are as dumb as dogshit or at the very least uninformed or unqualified to make them.
Here is an old example of one discussing the future of our Submarine fleet.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYF08jJi9Hg

A lesson in how to show your ignorance and stupidity and then keep digging that hole until it is so deep you cant get out , and they are ALL tared with the same brush .

 

[Max]

That’s actually less ugly than the Fusilier IMO.

Until you see it in the flesh...IMO the lights back and front look wrong but the body holds up pretty well

 

[DaveB]

Until you see it in the flesh...IMO the lights back and front look wrong but the body holds up pretty well

I took one for a test drive while I was waiting for my Grenadier service.
Pretty impressive, particularly for the price.
Only issue I have seen is they have packed in features and electronics usually costing $20K more.
I would have concerns of gremlins.
If they bought out a dual cab ute I might get one for my wife to use.

 

[bikesandguitars]

Thanks for the comments:
The very weak used prices in the UK (I believe mirrored in Europe) as well as plenty of photos of available stock elsewhere do not suggest strong sales. I haven't seen any data suggesting strong sales v the production targets but please do share if you have.

This in turn suggests that, while an excellent vehicle in so many ways, its appeal is narrow. While I love mine, many friends with similar off road biased use cases have rejected it even after extended loans and use Defenders and are looking at the new LC250.

The LC 100 had live axle as well as IFS variants. I would keep the current offer, but, as I suggested, add options (IFS, higher output engines) to broaden its appeal.

I am not being negative in any way. I want the brand to succeed. I would rather they concentrate on getting this product right for the market, creating sustainable volumes, rather than spreading themselves thin over multiple models.

Used prices in the U.S. have been strong. The last one sold on the BringATrailer website went for $86,000. Another one sold earlier in the year for $110,000. According to Progressive insurance the one-year depreciation for used vehicles in the U.S. is approximately 20%. For the few sales that I’ve been able to track, the one-year depreciation for the Grenadier is nowhere near 20%.

Again, there hasn’t been one single ad run yet. This cannot be overstated. I’m fairly confident that Ineos didn’t expect runaway demand for the Grenadier without a supporting ad campaign. Granted, there are some logistical challenges that should be addressed before Ineos takes the vehicle mainstream. But that’s what us early adopters are for.

I would also estimate that less than 5% of the general public in the USA realizes that this vehicle exists. There is a gigantic untapped market! Awareness will create demand.

Frankly, if the Grenadier was sold with IFS and rack and pinion steering ala the Ford Bronco, Toyota 4Runner, Kia Telluride, etc., I would’ve probably passed on it in favor of a similarly priced 392 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon. When I read the Grenadier spec included solid Carraro axles, ball steering and triple lockers, I bought two!

I’m not sure if you’re aware of how few trail-ready vehicles are offered in the U.S. While there is near endless competition in the IFS / R&P / 4WD variant, there are only two competitors that still offer time tested solid axles, ball steering and F/R lockers. They are the G Wagen and the Jeep Rubicon. The G Wagen is nearly twice the price and the Jeep is, well, it’s a Jeep — and I love Jeeps. But….

 

[CrazyOldMan]

A lesson in how to show your ignorance and stupidity and then keep digging that hole until it is so deep you cant get out , and they are ALL tared with the same brush .

This is actually hilarious footage - the Rear Admiral is oozing contempt and impatience. Poor bastard.

 

[Tazzieman]

This is actually hilarious footage - the Rear Admiral is oozing contempt and impatience. Poor bastard.

If he could , he would fart in her face.

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[CrazyOldMan]

Used prices in the U.S. have been strong. The last one sold on the BringATrailer website went for $86,000. Another one sold earlier in the year for $110,000. According to Progressive insurance the one-year depreciation for used vehicles in the U.S. is approximately 20%. For the few sales that I’ve been able to track, the one-year depreciation for the Grenadier is nowhere near 20%.

Again, there hasn’t been one single ad run yet. This cannot be overstated. I’m fairly confident that Ineos didn’t expect runaway demand for the Grenadier without a supporting ad campaign. Granted, there are some logistical challenges that should be addressed before Ineos takes the vehicle mainstream. But that’s what us early adopters are for.

I would also estimate that less than 5% of the general public in the USA realizes that this vehicle exists. There is a gigantic untapped market! Awareness will create demand.

Frankly, if the Grenadier was sold with IFS and rack and pinion steering ala the Ford Bronco, Toyota 4Runner, Kia Telluride, etc., I would’ve probably passed on it in favor of a similarly priced 392 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon. When I read the Grenadier spec included solid Carraro axles, ball steering and triple lockers, I bought two!

I’m not sure if you’re aware of how few trail-ready vehicles are offered in the U.S. While there is near endless competition in the IFS / R&P / 4WD variant, there are only two competitors that still offer time tested solid axles, ball steering and F/R lockers. They are the G Wagen and the Jeep Rubicon. The G Wagen is nearly twice the price and the Jeep is, well, it’s a Jeep — and I love Jeeps. But….

I thought the GWagen ditched the solid front axle - and isn’t the rear a dead axle? So then it’s just the Grenadier and Jeep.

 

[bikesandguitars]

I thought the GWagen ditched the solid front axle - and isn’t the rear a dead axle? So then it’s just the Grenadier and Jeep.

You’re right! Mercedes ditched the solid front axle in 2019. I stand corrected. Thanks for the post! All the more reason to covet a Grenadier!

 

[CrazyOldMan]

You’re right! Mercedes ditched the solid front axle in 2019. I stand corrected. Thanks for the post! All the more reason to covet a Grenadier!

Mercedes, JLR, and Toyota all did the same thing at roughly the same time - gave up on the mechanical solution for a software solution that gives a better daily driver experience. Basically saying that the DOMINANT design principle is taking the kids to school with the sporadic titillation of an off-road experience, which will be documented for posterity and shared on social media. That’s the way to get volume - the lawyer weekend warrior and soccer moms eat that recipe up all day long.

 

[AWo]

Audi shuts down the production of the Q8 e-tron in the Brussels plant in Belgium with 3,300 employees due to the lack of demand. 53,000 units of that car were build there last year. If it will be build again, then most probably in Mexico.

AWo