Ineos signals worrying strategies

[parb]

Don’t worry about a “luxury” model costing big bucks.
There’s a fieldmaster with trialmaster options added at my dealer for sale for almost $160k AUD. That’s as much as a top of the line with fruit “real” Landcruiser 300 series GR, and about $50k more than I paid for a similar spec.
That’s getting into luxury dollarydoos.

I don't think that's where the ambition is at based on the article. Think $250-300k aud or more inline with the range Rover pricing.

 

[bikesandguitars]

It’s unfortunate that a viable business is being forced to retract due to government regulations that stand a strong chance of being rescinded, modified by the next person pandering for votes.

If they aim higher up the money tree then we can expect the already expensive parts and services to go in the same direction.
They want them to be seen outside all the private schools with all the offloading kit, spotlessly cleaned (by the butler), sitting on big rims and low profile tyres. All the other mummy's will then look with envy at their common RangeRover, pimped out Defender/GW or Bentley and go back to their estate and ring hubby demanding why they haven't got one of those unique and difficult to obtain Grenadier's and why he doesn't earn enough as little Tarquins daddy.

Not exactly in those words - but I can’t deny the sentiment - is why I bought two.

 

[trobex]

I've always viewed the Grenadier as a niche vehicle. For me it's a rufty tufty toy that I drive around home. It's just not comfortable enough, frugal enough or practical enough to take on long motorway journeys with a bit of offroading at the end. I use the far more comfortable new Defender for that. So I treat the Gren as a bit of rural eye-candy that I know can do the business, but it's far too precious to subject it to anything too strenuous. If I wanted to go green laning (I don't) I'd buy an old Discovery with all the necessaries. Over time I expect I'll build on what's there, but just now I enjoy its pretty looks, its quirks, and slamming those oh-so-solid doors. I imagine it looking a bit more beat up 20 years down the line but in the meantime I would welcome limited sales and output. I'd rather not see too many on the road.

Comfort is my biggest gripe... it's not as enjoyable after 200kms in a single run as any other car I've owned. Aside from that it is damn near awesome...

 

[bikesandguitars]

Comfort is my biggest gripe... it's not as enjoyable after 200kms in a single run as any other car I've owned. Aside from that it is damn near awesome...

And then the other little bear said, “This one is just right!”

 

[Stu_Barnes]

I am of the belief that the tow weight (not tongue) shouldn’t exceed 75% capacity. I’m sure the grenny would do fine but I wouldn’t do it on a regular basis.

We have a ski boat at around 5k lbs and we won’t use the grenadier either as it feels stressed at 70mph and passing feels like you have to think about it a mile or two in advance. The f250, 16 to 17 mpg, no problem at freeway speeds, AC works when the temp is over 100 outside and tons of room.

I thought you left your reservations on the lot. Did you eventually buy one?

 

[Roach]

The other factor to consider is….likely a better word….”boredom”. If Jim R gets bored of his IG project then it’s sell or fold.

As mentioned by @parb BMW could be a possibility. BMW has a gap in their lineup.

Question, would it have been more appealing if this was a BMW or less?

 

[holdmybeer]

Yes, continuation of a basic Tradesman edition with a profitable-enough base of long term service customers would be nice to see. It could keep a lid on ridiculous parts and service pricing for those of us (like me) who care.

 

[Roach]

I thought you left your reservations on the lot. Did you eventually buy one?

Hey Stu! Yes, I had three reserved and turned them down when they arrived. We had a truck for awhile and decided it wasn’t fully baked yet (our assessment). Kids were a big factor as they were the first to have doubts and I didn’t want to stick them with a car/truck that had issues. Placed order for a new one to get the next turn of the crank and hopefully an improved version but before it arrived, Canceled again. Another order for the 2025 to hopefully see some fixes and stability in both the product and the company. Kids are still out as they need greater reliability and creature comforts for babies, and whatever.

Still watching your forum to see what to do next

 

[Trialmaster]

Hey Stu! Yes, I had three reserved and turned them down when they arrived. We had a truck for awhile and decided it wasn’t fully baked yet (our assessment). Kids were a big factor as they were the first to have doubts and I didn’t want to stick them with a car/truck that had issues. Placed order for a new one to get the next turn of the crank and hopefully an improved version but before it arrived, Canceled again. Another order for the 2025 to hopefully see some fixes and stability in both the product and the company. Kids are still out as they need greater reliability and creature comforts for babies, and whatever.

Still watching your forum to see what to do next

THREE cancelled - FFS! No wonder they are littering lots. Then you have the audacity to preach about its possible future. Give me strength.

 

[Stu_Barnes]

Hey Stu! Yes, I had three reserved and turned them down when they arrived. We had a truck for awhile and decided it wasn’t fully baked yet (our assessment). Kids were a big factor as they were the first to have doubts and I didn’t want to stick them with a car/truck that had issues. Placed order for a new one to get the next turn of the crank and hopefully an improved version but before it arrived, Canceled again. Another order for the 2025 to hopefully see some fixes and stability in both the product and the company. Kids are still out as they need greater reliability and creature comforts for babies, and whatever.

Still watching your forum to see what to do next

Ah. I get it, everyone has their threshold. Did you get a picture of your Grenadier towing the boat? There are precious few of those right now.

 

[[ Adam ]]

That is a very USA-centric opinion; an F350 will not fit down most of the roads around me!
In the UK and much of Europe, the Grenadier is a big vehicle; in the USA I guess it is more of a nursery toy.

Towing speeds are mandated at lower levels too,
"It is also important to stick to the required speed limits – they are different for cars towing a caravan/trailer:

• 60mph - motorways and dual carriageways.
• 50mph - single carriageways.
• 30mph - built-up areas." West Yorkshire Police

The French suggest a maximum of 100kph on ordinary roads and 110kph on autoroutes.

If Ineos Automotive can get a lot of luxury Grenadiers on the road, they will max out the profit margin they can get on the few they can sell in the UK and Europe, but if they need volume through the factory, they'll need to sell a "tradesman" version.

Yes, there are fundamental differences between the US and European markets. The US invested heavily in an international "motorway" or interstate highway system as we call it here. There are massive, multi lane highways going in every direction from every major city, trans-versing the continent. This has been a long term economic and strategic initiative, and in my opinion is one of our countries greatest assets.

It is not uncommon for US travelers to travel 1000 miles per day on 70-80 mph highways.

The reality is that while the Grenadier is a vehicle produced in Europe, its largest market is (and will continue to be) the US. Those are just the realities of the market for this vehicle.

 

[Roach]

Ah. I get it, everyone has their threshold. Did you get a picture of your Grenadoer towing the boat? There are precious few of those right now.

I’ll check. I’m the worse when it comes to pics but plenty were around. Did the 210 only and it was enough to get a sense of how it would do. diesel was certainly one factor.

 

[Roach]

THREE cancelled - FFS! No wonder they are littering lots. Then you have the audacity to preach about its possible future. Give me strength.

Cancelled first three back in 24 and certainly a contributor to the numbers on the lot. The second ordered cancelled before it was built. If the reviews continue like they have been then I’ll cancel the third before build/delivery.

We were all excited to have three at family gatherings and getaways. Kids opinion was just too much missing for the price. We looked at G wagons but last year the had ADM’s…likely different now. For me specs (on road) didn’t make sense for a DD but if/when I take delivery it will be for specific trips

 

[TerryS]

Cancelled first three back in 24 and certainly a contributor to the numbers on the lot. The second ordered cancelled before it was built. If the reviews continue like they have been then I’ll cancel the third before build/delivery.

We were all excited to have three at family gatherings and getaways. Kids opinion was just too much missing for the price. We looked at G wagons but last year the had ADM’s…likely different now. For me specs (on road) didn’t make sense for a DD but if/when I take delivery it will be for specific trips

Sounds like you should just move on from the Grenadier.....it's never going to be your 'perfect' truck.

 

[Roach]

Likely will move on but it’s in the list of toys to look at.

 

[bikesandguitars]

Likely will move on but it’s in the list of toys to look at.

Have you ever heard of the “Toyota Sienna”? We’ve had a couple of those in the stable. They’re fantastic. It sounds like that’s what you’re looking for.

 

[Jeroendecker]

I've viewed the arcane works with worry.
The Ineos cloning JLR's strategies suggests that the bean counter with their lack of imagination and focus on short term profits is running the ship. I guess it's a reflection of the broader economy where pessimistic views about the spending capabilities of the public gives way for the focus on the upper class and them being insulated from the economy.

I don't like it, and the resulting focus on the moneyed class.

Yet I appreciate the point that politicians have created so many rules that you either are a mega manufacturing house or a niche house. Grenadier gets more runway without the fusilier to stay in the niche category.

But I dislike that to make it a viable business as a niche house is to create rolls Royce's and Bentley's - further making the demarcation between the haves and have nots extremely visible. I guess it was just business for ratcliff at the end of the day. The idea that it was a self sustaining passion project seems incorrect, its about maximizing profits.

Anyway, I'm ranting.
This is the article that got me wound up. It's about the broader shift in ineos strategy.

Ineos rethinks range expansion to focus on Grenadier | Autocar

4x4 brand ditches new models as it intentionally limits volumes and develops high-value Grenadier spin-offs

www.autocar.co.uk

I think it is smart business strategy to create multiple revenue streams and target multiple types of buyers. It lowers risk and allows for streams to fund the mission and vision in a sustainable way. For me, making sure Ineos is going to be a sustainable brand whilst holding on to the original core mission is awesome!

 

[Ever Pragmatic]

As a Brit, the Grenadier is classless and classy at the same time. You can use it on a landfill site in the morning, take the wife shopping in the afternoon and park at the Dorchester in the evening.. There’s not many vehicles you can do that in and still be “cool”.. It’s an old money vehicle..

 

[Roach]

Have you ever heard of the “Toyota Sienna”? We’ve had a couple of those in the stable. They’re fantastic. It sounds like that’s what you’re looking for.

I have and they are very good. I tend to like the more unusual which is what drew me to the Grenny. We will likely settle on something thats highway oriented like the 25 Cayenne, Cullinan or Rover makes a model we were told to look at (whatever the bespoke and LWB edition is called). Like @TerryS said...likely time to move on. I don't think I'm the right age or mind set to take on a project like the Grenadier.

 

[DoubleDoom]

As a Brit, the Grenadier is classless and classy at the same time. You can use it on a landfill site in the morning, take the wife shopping in the afternoon and park at the Dorchester in the evening.. There’s not many vehicles you can do that in and still be “cool”.. It’s an old money vehicle..

i agree. It inherits that from the original defender in a way that the new defender does not.