Fusilier On Hold???

[CrazyOldMan]

Hey - I was keeping my distance for safety. This is ‘Murika, that guy had US Military Expedition license plates, and he WOULD shoot me if I pulled up to the line.

That said, yes, you can read “sublimated inferiority complex” into my parking job

 

[Tazzieman]

My current favourite ex-military vehicle
View attachment 7863008
Volve Sugga

Aspirational!
As a kid I aspired to my uncle's Humber 1 tonner. That's him on the right and my other uncle & godfather on the left. Proud as punch!
I loved the gun turrets and crawled all over that lorry on the occasions we visited the Wiltshire country.

 

[bigleonski]

I would suggest the Humber Pig.
Very robust with retro looks. Men respect them, women want to be with them
View attachment 7862998

There’s one pissed off Central Queensland grazier wants his cattle grid back

 

[255/85]

I would suggest the Humber Pig.
Very robust with retro looks. Men respect them, women want to be with them

Granted the view out the back is shit but I'd have to see the left foot rest before committing.

 

[alvan]

Something better...
and in civilian version

 

[255/85]

My current favourite ex-military vehicle

Volve Sugga

I've admired the Sugga for years. Despite diff locks (and more) I refuse to get dragged down that rabbit hole. The endless search for arcane bits of hardware would be exhausting. Theres always a few available somewhere.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1957-volvo-tp21-aka-sugga/

VOLVO TP21 Military Sugga 915

NOTE: located in Perth, Western AustraliaWhere it is road Registered and runningCan be shipped worldwide from Port of Fremantle, International Roll-on Roll-off vehicle ships visiting weeklyTotal only

davidsclassiccars.com

 

[Beormund]

All shades for all identities.View attachment 7863000

Paint a moustache on the front and we can rename it the Brigadier.

 

[CrazyOldMan]

Something better...
View attachment 7863060 and in civilian version View attachment 7863061

Gee, I don’t know. Does the steering return to center? What are we looking at for fuel economy?

 

[Tazzieman]

Gee, I don’t know. Does the steering return to center? What are we looking at for fuel economy?

The front & rear passenger tankard holders will win you over

 

[Zimm]

I stopped at page 5 because the conversation veered into the weeds.

I think this is pretty simple.

Magna designed a discount 2016 Gwagon, as it's what they know. Not necessarily a bad thing at all, if it comes together. Fanboys will say otherwise, but it fell short on QA/QC. Did Ineos ask too much? Did Magna burn thru the budget? Sometimes the situation is, "you only get what you pay for". They all know the cause, but we'll never know. Moving forward, it is what it is. Some things, like the hump, are baked in. Other issues like the "brains" can be fixed with the financial commitment to do so. Rivian committed and just redid their whole electronic system already. So it's fixable.

But, we also see that Magna was the lead on the Fiskar... One starts to see a pattern in the result but the exact cause isn't clear. Did magna bite off more than it can chew dealing with startups, or did these in experienced start ups under fund ambitious projects?

I think it was a combination of both, and a basic realization by both parties there was going to be another issue with delivering a completed project under these circumstances. Someone was the adult in the room.


My conclusion is different than mosts. While its good to see INEOS is not afraid change course on a bad decision, I still don't see this as the "win" Grenadier fans see it as. This is a retreat and a regroup. This is evidence that there is a bottom to INEO's pockets, and we're near it. As of right now there are 439 Grens on Autotrader alone, (40 million in product) I'm betting all beyond 90 days paying interest to the banks. Right now methinks the US is tracking red.

 

[CrazyOldMan]

I stopped at page 5 because the conversation veered into the weeds.

I think this is pretty simple.

Magna designed a discount 2016 Gwagon, as it's what they know. Not necessarily a bad thing at all, if it comes together. Fanboys will say otherwise, but it fell short on QA/QC. Did Ineos ask too much? Did Magna burn thru the budget? Sometimes the situation is, "you only get what you pay for". They all know the cause, but we'll never know. Moving forward, it is what it is. Some things, like the hump, are baked in. Other issues like the "brains" can be fixed with the financial commitment to do so. Rivian committed and just redid their whole electronic system already. So it's fixable.

But, we also see that Magna was the lead on the Fiskar... One starts to see a pattern in the result but the exact cause isn't clear. Did magna bite off more than it can chew dealing with startups, or did these in experienced start ups under fund ambitious projects?

I think it was a combination of both, and a basic realization by both parties there was going to be another issue with delivering a completed project under these circumstances. Someone was the adult in the room.


My conclusion is different than mosts. While its good to see INEOS is not afraid change course on a bad decision, I still don't see this as the "win" Grenadier fans see it as. This is a retreat and a regroup. This is evidence that there is a bottom to INEO's pockets, and we're near it. As of right now there are 439 Grens on Autotrader alone, (40 million in product) I'm betting all beyond 90 days paying interest to the banks. Right now methinks the US is tracking red.

I’m just confused about why we wouldn’t take Ineos’ statement at face value. If the 2035 “no ICE” rule excludes the REx, then the Fusilier is probably a platform nobody wants. The business case falls apart - at least with respect to production in Europe.

 

[AWo]

I stopped at page 5 because the conversation veered into the weeds.

I think this is pretty simple.

Magna designed a discount 2016 Gwagon, as it's what they know. Not necessarily a bad thing at all, if it comes together. Fanboys will say otherwise, but it fell short on QA/QC. Did Ineos ask too much? Did Magna burn thru the budget? Sometimes the situation is, "you only get what you pay for". They all know the cause, but we'll never know. Moving forward, it is what it is. Some things, like the hump, are baked in. Other issues like the "brains" can be fixed with the financial commitment to do so. Rivian committed and just redid their whole electronic system already. So it's fixable.

But, we also see that Magna was the lead on the Fiskar... One starts to see a pattern in the result but the exact cause isn't clear. Did magna bite off more than it can chew dealing with startups, or did these in experienced start ups under fund ambitious projects?

I think it was a combination of both, and a basic realization by both parties there was going to be another issue with delivering a completed project under these circumstances. Someone was the adult in the room.


My conclusion is different than mosts. While its good to see INEOS is not afraid change course on a bad decision, I still don't see this as the "win" Grenadier fans see it as. This is a retreat and a regroup. This is evidence that there is a bottom to INEO's pockets, and we're near it. As of right now there are 439 Grens on Autotrader alone, (40 million in product) I'm betting all beyond 90 days paying interest to the banks. Right now methinks the US is tracking red.

Please keep in mind that Magna Steyr wasn't a development partner (they rejected in the beginning), that was AKKA Technologies, the former MB Tech. Magna Drivetrain (what is not Magna Steyr) was a development partner. You gess it, for the drivetrain.

However, I saw Magna Steyr stuff working with Ineos, for the driving lights, for example. Magna then came aboard to transform prototypes into production cars.

I see pro's and cons in retreating from the Fusilier. The clear pro for me is that they do not spend more money (as already spent) into a project which is pushed into a declining market. Con's are, that Ineos has to continue with just one model. That could have drawbacks in regards to customer choices and maybe with emission regulations, at least in Europe.

AWo

 

[255/85]

I see pro's and cons in retreating from the Fusilier. The clear pro for me is that they do not spend more money (as already spent) into a project which is pushed into a declining market. Con's are, that Ineos has to continue with just one model. That could have drawbacks in regards to customer choices and maybe with emission regulations, at least in Europe.

AWo

I’m just confused about why we wouldn’t take Ineos’ statement at face value. If the 2035 “no ICE” rule excludes the REx, then the Fusilier is probably a platform nobody wants. The business case falls apart - at least with respect to production in Europe.

Does Europe's "No ICE" position also reduces the possibility of an REx Grenadier (or even an hybrid version) in markets that could benefit from such a model? I'm thinking North American rather than African or Australian markets. What is Ineos' option going forward? They will need something to offset all the carbon that Grenadiers produce.

 

[G-Man]

The Grenadier is a midsized SUV with live axles and a stout frame that you drive and treat like a truck … it has relatively few peers.

I love the fact that in other parts of the world there are guys who consider the Grenadier to be a 'mid-size' SUV. In the UK it is considered a beast

Just out of interest, what can you head out and buy (without mods) that immediately fits in the category of 'large SUV' and has some decent offroad ability? A Hummer?

 

[holdmybeer]

I love the fact that in other parts of the world there are guys who consider the Grenadier to be a 'mid-size' SUV. In the UK it is considered a beast

Just out of interest, what can you head out and buy (without mods) that immediately fits in the category of 'large SUV' and has some decent offroad ability? A Hummer?

Larger than a Grenadier and varying in their offroad ability but certainly people use them offroad: Land Cruiser, Range Rover, Ford Explorer, Hyundai Palisade, Lexus LX, Nissan Armada. I'd consider all those midsize SUVs and only slightly bigger than the Grenadier.

A lot larger than a Grenadier? Chevy Suburban. GMC Yukon. Escalade. Same platform, sure, but all very popular and fine off the pavement. Sure, a Hummer. And Bentley (!) and I guess a Q7 and Atlas. Superlol, but sold as "offroad" and people do try. Actually, the Defender 130 is quite a bit larger than the Grenadier and definitely offroadable.

 

[CrazyOldMan]

I love the fact that in other parts of the world there are guys who consider the Grenadier to be a 'mid-size' SUV. In the UK it is considered a beast

Just out of interest, what can you head out and buy (without mods) that immediately fits in the category of 'large SUV' and has some decent offroad ability? A Hummer?

I don’t know about “off-road ability,” but yes, in the US and Canada, the Grenadier is only mid-size. A Chevy Suburban or Jeep Grand Wagoneer would be in the “large SUV” category. A GMC Yukon XL AT4 is not going to be anyone’s idea of a great off-road vehicle - but it has the clearance and torque to deal with almost anything not deemed specifically “off-roading.” Thousands of them on the road - nothing to blink at, nor considered unusual in the least. My wife learned to drive at 14 in a Chevy Suburban in the 80’s. For anyone with 4+ kids, it’s still pretty unbeatable as a daily and road trip vehicle - one of the only ways to keep them from murdering one another.

 

[G-Man]

Whoa! Some of those vehicles are absolute barges!

 

[CrazyOldMan]

Whoa! Some of those vehicles are absolute barges!

I brought my team over from Switzerland and Germany for a team event in the US, and had rented a Yukon XL. They asked if I had a commercial driver’s license, that I was allowed to drive something that big. When I told them that’s what my wife learned to drive in when she was a teenager, they thought I was joking. What REALLY terrified her was trying to drive a BMW 5 series in Ireland last summer - she just spent the whole trip praying she didn’t have to pass another car on a rural lane.

 

[Jeremy996]

I brought my team over from Switzerland and Germany for a team event in the US, and had rented a Yukon XL. They asked if I had a commercial driver’s license, that I was allowed to drive something that big. When I told them that’s what my wife learned to drive in when she was a teenager, they thought I was joking. What REALLY terrified her was trying to drive a BMW 5 series in Ireland last summer - she just spent the whole trip praying she didn’t have to pass another car on a rural lane.

UK Devonian and Cornish lanes are much the same, with the added fun of hard, high hedges.

 

[CrazyOldMan]

UK Devonian and Cornish lanes are much the same, with the added fun of hard, high hedges.

In other words - no GMC Yukons for you ;o)