Fuel economy

[IG Pop]

I ended up with 11,46 litre Diesel / 100km.

Thank you very much Mo.
That’s bizarre and was mentioned also by somebody else I think.
How much would it be at 130 km/h on the highway?
I still expected higher consumption in cities stop-and-go …

 

[emax]

Falling was l/km, sorry in mind everytime continental measuring …
at the moment around 12.8-13.2 l/100km, 22-21,4 MPG (UK)

Suggest to call it "improving / worsening" (or whatever the correct wording is).

 

[MrMike]

Thank you very much Mo.
That’s bizarre and was mentioned also by somebody else I think.
How much would it be at 130 km/h on the highway?
I still expected higher consumption in cities stop-and-go …

Ingemar (long way home winner) posted a video of him doing 130 with current consumption - his quote-

​

@grenadier_exploring
2 months ago

i spent a few times in the back and i find it ok...but as you said: not for 5 adults. the foot room on the middle seat is way too small. I like the slightly elevated seating position in the back row - so you can see quite well from there.fuel consumption is like Ineos´ numbers. on the freeway (130-140km/h) it's of course high (13-14.5l/100km) and when you drive normal roads up to 100-110km/h it goes down to 11-12l/100km. on average I am currently around 12-13l/100km. I am not holding back to save fuel when I drive and those were my numbers so far (a lot of motorway and mountain passes and a bit of off-road as well). (if u need it in MPG i can calculate that as well)

 

[emax]

I guess that we can see here how great the efficiency of the engine actually is. Stop & go doesn't seem to have such a big impact. But drag has.

 

[das mo]

I guess that we can see here how great the efficiency of the engine actually is. Stop & go doesn't seem to have such a big impact. But drag has.

Excellent.

Will add another 40cm height to the brick in the next days.

:/

 

[Jean Mercier]

date​	type	km ODO​	liters in​	cost (€)​	where​	€/l​	Δkm​	l/100km (this trip)​	Σl/100km (all trips)​	kind of roads & other comments
04/05/2023​		41​								got the car / drove home
07/05/2023​	petrol	82​	86.06​	136.75​	Belgium					drove around home / first tank fill
11/05/2023​	petrol	622​	85.42​	142.31​	Belgium	1.666​	540​	15.82​	15.82​	mixed / mainly motorways
16/05/2023​	petrol	1134​	81.83​	136.57​	Belgium	1.669​	512​	15.98​	15.90​	mixed / mainly motorways
18/05/2023​	petrol	1630​	79.19​	178.10​	Germany	2.249​	496​	15.97​	15.92​	mainly motorways
18/05/2023​	petrol	2111​	78.28​	120.44​	Czechia	1.539​	481​	16.27​	16.00​	almost only motorways (limited 120 km/h)
20/05/2023​	petrol	2678​	75.85​	119.46​	Slovakia	1.575​	567​	13.38​	15.43​	ordinary roads / NO motorways (& Hungary); (<90 km/h)
25/05/2023​	petrol	3294​	82.25​	130.70​	Austria	1.589​	616​	13.35​	15.03​	ordinary roads / NO motorways (& Hungary) (<100 km/h)
27/05/2023​	petrol	3875​	85.03​	159.77​	Germany	1.879​	581​	14.64​	14.97​	ordinary roads / NO motorways (& Hungary) (<100 km/h)
29/05/2023​	petrol	4473​	84.69​	145.58​	Germany	1.719​	598​	14.16​	14.86​	ordinary roads / NO motorways (<100 km/h)
31/05/2023​	petrol	5013​	84.03​	137.73​	Belgium	1.639​	540​	15.56​	14.94​	mixed
17/06/2023​	petrol	5571​	84.73​	143.96​	Belgium	1.699​	558​	15.18​	14.96​	mixed

The table above, is, I hope, almost self-explaining, but still ….
The column:

• “Δkm” is the distance I drove between two tank fill-ups
• “l/100 km” is my fuel consumption between those two fill-ups
• “Σl/100km (all trips)” is my global fuel consumption, in my case, for the time being almost 15l/100km petrol!

Beware that my speed indication of my Grenadier is about 5% too high, therefore also the distance driven. That means the real distance driven is lower than what the ODO meter tells, and therefore the real fuel consumption is also some 5% higher!
____________

I would like to make some comments on the “remaining range” calculation of the Grenadier: unreliable!
The first screen below shows at ODO 5414km about 1/3 fuel level (even more) and remaining range calculation of 85 km. This would mean that with a full 90l petrol tank, I would only be able to do 250 km or something like that!

Second one (same day) with ODO 5494 (see above), having almost driven my 85 remaining km, about 1/8 fuel left, and remaining range of 73 km, what means that I could drive about 580 km.
But the funny thing is, if I look at both remaining ranges, 85 km – 73 km, means I have driven only 12 km according to the remaining fuel calculation, while I drove 80 km.

And then some days later (my car didn’t move), same ODO 5494, same 1/8 fuel level, remaining rang red warning and no calculation anymore!

But the system makes a calculation of remaining fuel on another screen: 17% fuel level on the “Vehicle Information” screen. (Car didn’t move, still 5494 km, motor was on).

Some days later I was driving slowly back home at night through the city, with already 5527 km, still about 1/8 fuel tank, and look at the consumption at on moment: 12.2 l/100 km.

Finally I filled my fuel tank at 5571 km, with a fuel level of 11%, means about 9 liter, what means about 60 km at my average of 15 l/100 km. That means that I drove 157 km, instead of 85 km of the first warning. And I still had 5 liter left according to my tank capacity (I filled the car with almost 85 liter)!

20230617_131450

Conclusion: the remaining fuel level is probably, like in the past, based on a floater system. This is of course unreliable for correct calculations, but I can live with it.

Anyway, I would like that Ineos continues to display an estimation of my remaining kms, instead of putting blank information in heavy red on my screen. Should be in heavy red indeed!

 

[DaveB]

date​	type	km ODO​	liters in​	cost (€)​	where​	€/l​	Δkm​	l/100km (this trip)​	Σl/100km (all trips)​	kind of roads & other comments
04/05/2023​		41​								got the car / drove home
07/05/2023​	petrol	82​	86.06​	136.75​	Belgium					drove around home / first tank fill
11/05/2023​	petrol	622​	85.42​	142.31​	Belgium	1.666​	540​	15.82​	15.82​	mixed / mainly motorways
16/05/2023​	petrol	1134​	81.83​	136.57​	Belgium	1.669​	512​	15.98​	15.90​	mixed / mainly motorways
18/05/2023​	petrol	1630​	79.19​	178.10​	Germany	2.249​	496​	15.97​	15.92​	mainly motorways
18/05/2023​	petrol	2111​	78.28​	120.44​	Czechia	1.539​	481​	16.27​	16.00​	almost only motorways (limited 120 km/h)
20/05/2023​	petrol	2678​	75.85​	119.46​	Slovakia	1.575​	567​	13.38​	15.43​	ordinary roads / NO motorways (& Hungary); (<90 km/h)
25/05/2023​	petrol	3294​	82.25​	130.70​	Austria	1.589​	616​	13.35​	15.03​	ordinary roads / NO motorways (& Hungary) (<100 km/h)
27/05/2023​	petrol	3875​	85.03​	159.77​	Germany	1.879​	581​	14.64​	14.97​	ordinary roads / NO motorways (& Hungary) (<100 km/h)
29/05/2023​	petrol	4473​	84.69​	145.58​	Germany	1.719​	598​	14.16​	14.86​	ordinary roads / NO motorways (<100 km/h)
31/05/2023​	petrol	5013​	84.03​	137.73​	Belgium	1.639​	540​	15.56​	14.94​	mixed
17/06/2023​	petrol	5571​	84.73​	143.96​	Belgium	1.699​	558​	15.18​	14.96​	mixed

The table above, is, I hope, almost self-explaining, but still ….
The column:

• “Δkm” is the distance I drove between two tank fill-ups
• “l/100 km” is my fuel consumption between those two fill-ups
• “Σl/100km (all trips)” is my global fuel consumption, in my case, for the time being almost 15l/100km petrol!

Beware that my speed indication of my Grenadier is about 5% too high, therefore also the distance driven. That means the real distance driven is lower than what the ODO meter tells, and therefore the real fuel consumption is also some 5% higher!
____________

I would like to make some comments on the “remaining range” calculation of the Grenadier: unreliable!
The first screen below shows at ODO 5414km about 1/3 fuel level (even more) and remaining range calculation of 85 km. This would mean that with a full 90l petrol tank, I would only be able to do 250 km or something like that!
View attachment 7816945View attachment 7816946
Second one (same day) with ODO 5494 (see above), having almost driven my 85 remaining km, about 1/8 fuel left, and remaining range of 73 km, what means that I could drive about 580 km.
But the funny thing is, if I look at both remaining ranges, 85 km – 73 km, means I have driven only 12 km according to the remaining fuel calculation, while I drove 80 km.

And then some days later (my car didn’t move), same ODO 5494, same 1/8 fuel level, remaining rang red warning and no calculation anymore!
View attachment 7816948

But the system makes a calculation of remaining fuel on another screen: 17% fuel level on the “Vehicle Information” screen. (Car didn’t move, still 5494 km, motor was on).
View attachment 7816949

Some days later I was driving slowly back home at night through the city, with already 5527 km, still about 1/8 fuel tank, and look at the consumption at on moment: 12.2 l/100 km.
View attachment 7816950

Finally I filled my fuel tank at 5571 km, with a fuel level of 11%, means about 9 liter, what means about 60 km at my average of 15 l/100 km. That means that I drove 157 km, instead of 85 km of the first warning. And I still had 5 liter left according to my tank capacity (I filled the car with almost 85 liter)!

View attachment 781695120230617_131450

Conclusion: the remaining fuel level is probably, like in the past, based on a floater system. This is of course unreliable for correct calculations, but I can live with it.

Anyway, I would like that Ineos continues to display an estimation of my remaining kms, instead of putting blank information in heavy red on my screen. Should be in heavy red indeed!

Remaining range is not accurate in any vehicle unless the road, weather, driving conditions and driving style remain absolutely constant.

 

[Jean Mercier]

Remaining range is not accurate in any vehicle unless the road, weather, driving conditions and driving style remain absolutely constant.

Yes, completely agree with you, but I saw such fast changes, sometimes when the roll of my car was different, therefore typical a floating system. But, my main point: Ineos should continue to calculate an estimate, and perhaps make slower iterations.

 

[Miki]

I think they should have had a simple needle showing from F---to---E.
Think of the money they would have saved and how much easier it would have been to fit a Stack gauge

Less electronics, wasn't that the plan ?

 

[bemax]

Thank you very much Mo.
That’s bizarre and was mentioned also by somebody else I think.
How much would it be at 130 km/h on the highway?
I still expected higher consumption in cities stop-and-go …

In the city my one takes about 13,5 litres of diesel/100 km.
At 130 km/h it is around 12-13 litres.
Both with an more or less empty car.

 

[derv doctor]

My screen says it's doing 8.3 litres per 100km average, I've done some motorway miles at 70+ mph and local trips. That's 34 mpg (UK) I've not manually check it yet.

 

[Cheshire cat]

My screen says it's doing 8.3 litres per 100km average, I've done some motorway miles at 70+ mph and local trips. That's 34 mpg (UK) I've not manually check it yet.

I have seen similar figures on my diesel variant also.

 

[Arkaig]

My screen says it's doing 8.3 litres per 100km average, I've done some motorway miles at 70+ mph and local trips. That's 34 mpg (UK) I've not manually check it yet.

I have seen similar figures on my diesel variant also.

I guess it's all a bit like theory and practice, or what your Gren would like you to believe and what your actual mpg is in the real world.

My diesel consumption from inception over nearly 4,000 miles detail an average of 22.7mpg or 12.4 L/100kms. If I were to believe the various screenshots from my Gren, my wallet would be a whole lot happier!

 

[Miki]

My screen says it's doing 8.3 litres per 100km average, I've done some motorway miles at 70+ mph and local trips. That's 34 mpg (UK) I've not manually check it yet.

We must drive cars here more efficiently than the Euro-pee-annes.
They (non specific) all claim around 12 to 15 litre per 100Km which is between 18 and 23 MPG (15 to 19 MP(US)G)

I don't have a Grenny but my 1996 Defender 300tdi manages 26MPG (11L/100), a modern engine should surely match that ?
Mind you, I'd probably be zooming around during the honeymoon period, I did when I fitted a VNT turbo to the Landy and fuel went down to around the 22 MPG mark.

 

[MrMike]

We must drive cars here more efficiently than the Euro-pee-annes.
They (non specific) all claim around 12 to 15 litre per 100Km which is between 18 and 23 MPG (15 to 19 MP(US)G)

I don't have a Grenny but my 1996 Defender 300tdi manages 26MPG (11L/100), a modern engine should surely match that ?
Mind you, I'd probably be zooming around during the honeymoon period, I did when I fitted a VNT turbo to the Landy and fuel went down to around the 22 MPG mark.

Remember that your Defender is close to 700kgs lighter than a Grenadier

 

[Miki]

Remember that your Defender is close to 700kgs lighter than a Grenadier

True, which is a lot .... almost a category 7 MOT then ?

 

[MrMike]

True, which is a lot .... almost a category 7 MOT then ?

Not sure what that is?

 

[Miki]

Not sure what that is?

In the UK vehicles are categorised for the annual Ministry of transport test (MOT).
Class 4 is a standard car/van/mini bus ... Private @ Goods vehicles (up to 3,000kg design gross weight)
Class 7 is a commercial vehicle (by virtue of its GVW/MAM), where the weight of the vehicle plus the load it can carry (Gross Vehicle Weght or Max Allowable Mass) = over 3000kg and less than 3500kg

Class 7 needs a few extra checks and (of course) costs more,

 

[emax]

based on a floater system

You mean a flow meter?

If so, I don't think so. The engines OBD data provides fuel injection amounts in pico liters (!) . That's where the information is usually calculated from. Even in my yr 2000 W203 I can see these numbers on an OBD monitoring laptop (at my car workshop).

It's all a software matter. Numbers are worth nothing if you don't know how to accurately process them. Filtering, averaging, scanning frequency, weighing their meaning ...

That's what makes mature systems like Bosch so expensive: the experience they've gained over decades.

They'll hopefully improve this.

And btw, the daily numbers are simply wrong as they disappear after a restart and all calculations seems to start from scratch upon every engine start.

 

[Jean Mercier]

You mean a flow meter?

No, certainly not, I mean this:

Float (liquid level) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It's a piece located inside the fuel tank.
I agree the daily numbers are wrong, I agree it depends on a lot of factors (driving style, driving location, winter, summer, towing, load, etc.), but my point is: please Ineos, make less frequent iterations, and continue to give an estimate, like the one that is available in the "Vehicle Information" screen.