Long road trip report

[Michael_in_Baja]

I have found I get just over 22mpg UK (18.3 US) if i keep the speed to under 50mph. Once it gets above 50, the mpg drops away fast. I have roof rails and an awning which create drag. I'm in a county with very few fast roads. So it spends most of its time going 30-50mph. When I had my old Defender, I liked nothing more in the summer then winding the window down and drive around at a comfortable low speed and enjoy the experience. I do similar with the IG.

It is very easy to spoil your MPG with a couple of sprightly accelerations but the lowest I have had so far is 17.9 UK MPG (14.9 US).

I track my mileage and refills to compare against the car. They are broadly similar.

This was my experience between 50 and 60 miles an hour I get stellar gas mileage, presently 17.9 as well and between 45-50 (during break in) it was 18.6 but I spend half my time in a country whose speed limit is between 50 and 56 mph.

My next modification is going to be the TDI tuner that claims it can boost mpg by 20% on the Grenadier in eco mode, That should be here sometime early next week and I will do a review of it after I get some time with it installed.

 

[Dokatd]

I really enjoy how the all knowing engineers at every automotive company throw in some random design flaws in the form of recalls just to keep us on our toes! Not to mention shipping first gen vehicles with glaring faults to keep the riff raff from buying them all up in the first year or two.

Though I appreciate the point being made, I quickly lose a level of respect for people that suggest only the engineers at the factory know what’s right and they sell you the best version you could possibly buy.

And finally, I admitted to not reading the OP’s first post but I read enough to see his truck was modified. Comparing it to your stock IG is just wrong and short sighted.

Regardless, accepting the poor steering of the IG is roughly the same as saying smoking cigarettes or the like is an acquired taste. The IG objectively drives better on the highway with an aftermarket steering stabilizer. Just because you got used to it in stock form doesn’t make it acceptable by traditional vehicle handling standards.

Drive what you like and how you like. And maybe, just maybe your IG drives like a dream and many of us just got poorly built trucks. Or maybe some of us have less tolerance for perceived or legitimate poor handling. I know some very rich people that have absolutely horrible taste in food, and just as many that haven’t a clue what makes a good vehicle or how they should drive.

Sorry, I know that’s a bit of a rant, I just have a very strong reaction to the suggestion that engineers know best and the suggestion that a production vehicle doesn’t have a ton of compromises that just might be able to be corrected by the end user to fit their mission. Yes some people ruin their vehicle with mods, but many make dramatic improvements.

Sorry, that was another mini rant. Anyways, any IG owner in the DFW area is welcome to contact me and I will let them drive my modded IG to compare to theirs so they can make their own informed decision.

Rant mode off.

 

[Rupert]

My IG is not modded, save for sliders. I have a 2020 Ladn Cruiser that is fully modded. Neither vehicle fully modded or not was built for MPG. I fill it up and I drain and it gets me from place to place in a fashion I truly enjoy. Its a great vehicle, turns heads, comfortable in town and on the road. I appreacite all the comments here and they all make darn good sense to me. Over time I am sure I will add other bits and pieces to make it a little more off road worthy, I might go with the leveling kit, I will defintely go with full underbody skids (hopefully aluminum), and maybe some other silly creatur comforts inside, but overall I am wearing off the new and enjoying basically stock for now.

 

[[ Adam ]]

Just because you got used to it in stock form doesn’t make it acceptable by traditional vehicle handling standards.

What factory kingpin live axle vehicle are you comparing it to?

 

[Dokatd]

What factory kingpin live axle vehicle are you comparing it to?

Which would you like? I’ve driven a ton. Let’s go for what I currently own and drive.

Unimog U1300L
Unimog 416 Doka
Unimog 404.1
Unimog 411C
Mercedes Gwagon 2002 vintage
Volvo C303

Now just a few I have owned

Land Rover D90 both stock and modded
Land Range Rover multiple models
Land Rover Disco both series I and II both stock and modded
Toyota Fj60 stock and modded
Toyota Fj62 stock and modded
Ford Early Bronco stock and modded
Kaiser Military truck

Does that work? I know I’m missing several in there but it’s been awhile.

Otherwise the list of vehicles I have thousands of miles in going down the highway etc is too long to list for practical purposes.

 

[[ Adam ]]

Which would you like? I’ve driven a ton. Let’s go for what I currently own and drive.

Unimog U1300L
Unimog 416 Doka
Unimog 404.1
Unimog 411C
Mercedes Gwagon 2002 vintage
Volvo C303

I find it incredibly surprising that you have such difficulty with the Grenadier having driven these ancient agriculture monsters.

Or maybe some of us have less tolerance for perceived or legitimate poor handling.

I'd really love to drive your Grenadier - because as you describe it, it's quite different than mine - or you drive mine. Let me know if you come to DC and we can figure out if I've got a special truck or a broken brain.

 

[AngusMacG]

Regardless, accepting the poor steering of the IG is roughly the same as saying smoking cigarettes or the like is an acquired taste. The IG objectively drives better on the highway with an aftermarket steering stabilizer. Just because you got used to it in stock form doesn’t make it acceptable by traditional vehicle handling standards.

Really??? I’m pretty sure that if the Grenny had poor steering then the 30K+ miles I’ve driven with the stock steering should have caused issues for me by now. Honestly your opinions are your opinions they aren’t facts. I equate adding the stabilizer soon after taking delivery to going out for a super fancy meal and adding seasoning as soon as the waiter places the food in front of you. You haven’t even tasted it to see if it needs seasoning for your taste…

 

[Bruce B]

Really??? I’m pretty sure that if the Grenny had poor steering then the 30K+ miles I’ve driven with the stock steering should have caused issues for me by now. Honestly your opinions are your opinions they aren’t facts. I equate adding the stabilizer soon after taking delivery to going out for a super fancy meal and adding seasoning as soon as the waiter places the food in front of you. You haven’t even tasted it to see if it needs seasoning for your taste…

 

[Dual Grenny Guy]

Really??? I’m pretty sure that if the Grenny had poor steering then the 30K+ miles I’ve driven with the stock steering should have caused issues for me by now. Honestly your opinions are your opinions they aren’t facts. I equate adding the stabilizer soon after taking delivery to going out for a super fancy meal and adding seasoning as soon as the waiter places the food in front of you. You haven’t even tasted it to see if it needs seasoning for your taste…

 

[bikesandguitars]

Really??? I’m pretty sure that if the Grenny had poor steering then the 30K+ miles I’ve driven with the stock steering should have caused issues for me by now. Honestly your opinions are your opinions they aren’t facts. I equate adding the stabilizer soon after taking delivery to going out for a super fancy meal and adding seasoning as soon as the waiter places the food in front of you. You haven’t even tasted it to see if it needs seasoning for your taste…

Could not agree more. I don’t know what all the fuss is about regarding the steering. But there is definitely fuss. I enjoy the tactile, point and shoot feel of the steering. My vehicle does not wander. This is definitely a matter of personal choice and certainly not a design flaw. But I’m as guilty as anyone for coveting parts that say “Fox” or “King” on them…

 

[Dokatd]

Really??? I’m pretty sure that if the Grenny had poor steering then the 30K+ miles I’ve driven with the stock steering should have caused issues for me by now. Honestly your opinions are your opinions they aren’t facts. I equate adding the stabilizer soon after taking delivery to going out for a super fancy meal and adding seasoning as soon as the waiter places the food in front of you. You haven’t even tasted it to see if it needs seasoning for your taste…

Considering all the fuss from a huge number of owners and the number of pre order trucks being abandoned at the dealers because people are freaked out by the steering on their test drive I feel pretty good about my opinion. I put several thousand miles on mine consisting of several decent road trips before I was at a point of trading it in or trying to fix it. Luckily I experimented and was able to fix my issue.

I can take 1-2 bites of a steak and realize I need a touch more salt or send it back for being overcooked. . By your standards I would need to suffer through eating 20-30 steaks before I could make that judgement call.

 

[bikesandguitars]

Considering all the fuss from a huge number of owners and the number of pre order trucks being abandoned at the dealers because people are freaked out by the steering on their test drive I feel pretty good about my opinion. I put several thousand miles on mine consisting of several decent road trips before I was at a point of trading it in or trying to fix it. Luckily I experimented and was able to fix my issue.

I can take 1-2 bites of a steak and realize I need a touch more salt or send it back for being overcooked. . By your standards I would need to suffer through eating 20-30 steaks before I could make that judgement call.

There is no “huge number of owners..freaked out by the steering and abandoning their orders.” You have zero data that supports that claim. Absolute zero.

However, there is the internet and people that believe that a few negative posts on an enthusiast forum somehow forms the basis of fact. It doesn’t. They don’t. The fact that several of us have said the steering is not an issue proves that, irrefutably. Your opinion is not a fact.

As proof of this, I’d like to point out that you’re now claiming that everyone likes their steak cooked and salted the exact same way?
Really?

 

[crashnburn]

This was my experience between 50 and 60 miles an hour I get stellar gas mileage, presently 17.9 as well and between 45-50 (during break in) it waa 18.6 but I spend half my time in a country whose speed limit is between 50 and 56 mph.

My next modification is going to be the TDI tuner that claims it can boost mpg by 20% on the Grenadier in eco mode, That should be here sometime early next week and I will do a review of it after I get some time with it installed.

50-60mph @2000-2500rpm is the sweet spot I've found if I am in no rush on highways - getting ~17mpg.
MPG doesn't really bother me as it is a given that the IG doesn't excel in this.
The LR3 and Volvo I drive get about the same MPG too.

 

[Dokatd]

There is no “huge number of owners..freaked out by the steering and abandoning their orders.” You have zero data that supports that claim. Absolute zero.

However, there is the internet and people that believe that a few negative posts on an enthusiast forum somehow forms the basis of fact. It doesn’t. They don’t. The fact that several of us have said the steering is not an issue proves that, irrefutably. Your opinion is not a fact.

As proof of this, I’d like to point out that you’re now claiming that everyone likes their steak cooked and salted the exact same way?
Really?

What? How exactly did I claim everyone likes steak the same way.

And yes the Sewell dealer here is packed with trucks. I personally know several people here that passed due to steering. Those I know personally would easily account for the excess inventory. Combined with the additional second hand info I feel pretty good about it and that doesn’t even count this forum.

My initial test drive before I bought mine came with a disclaimer that the steering is weird. They gave a couple excuses for why. My truck was literally abandoned because the person who pre ordered it ended up not being ok with the handling of the IG (i.e. steering) and cancelled. I gave up my preorder to get into one about 6-8months sooner.

Just because you like an unseasoned steak does not mean the majority of people do to. Most people like their steak with at least a little salt.

And just because you’re ok with the steering on the IG requiring you to center the steering after a 90° turn unlike virtually any other road going vehicle in the world doesn’t make it right.

99.9% of people that have driven a car or truck more than a few hundred miles in their life expect the steering wheel to self center in any vehicle they get into. The IG doesn’t do that to date without changing the stabilizer. Can they adapt, sure will they prefer it, maybe. Is it normal, no, are you trying to normalize it, yes.

For reference I have full hydro steering on one of my trucks. One of the coveted characteristics people with full hydro look for is self centering. People spend huge sums of money to develop full hydro steering components that mimic this characteristic.

Some ask you simply, does your stock IG require significant manual recentering of the steering when coming out of a 90° turn? (Your answer will be yes)

Is this a normal condition for any off the shelf road going vehicle (The public answer will be NO)

So what’s your problem? This fundamental difference is what causes the other complaints and especially the ones the OP complained about.

And keep in mind the OP has a modified truck to begin with. As do I at this point. And mine drives like a dream now.

So the final step here is for some of you diehards to complete a simple test. Go outside and simplify unbolt your stock IG stabilizer on your stock IG. Now go drive it around the block for a moment. You will find the steering to be a bit fast, but you will also find the return to center is there like any other vehicle.

This seriously takes just a few minutes and simple hand tools. If you can’t or won’t do this test then we are worlds apart and there will be no reconciliation between our differences.

Dictated but not read

 

[bikesandguitars]

Everyone I know doesn’t mind the steering. I bought two of them because I liked it so much. Look at the forum posters above who have no problem with the steering. Have you not seen their posts?

I take mine off-road. I don’t want a rack and pinion feel or the problems that may occur under heavy duress. You may be another person that thinks the vehicle’s price dictates that it be a highway friendly, mall crawler that looks good splashing through a puddle on the way to Ruth’s Chris. That’s fine. But, IMHO, that’s not way it was made for. I’m guessing you’ve never had your Grenadier off-road, is that correct?

As for steak, a lot of people I know are vegetarians. Several others have an aversion to sodium. And some have zero control issues and simply eat what is brought.

The 2025 Grenadier is offered only with recirculating ball steering. The same goes with the Quartermaster. I guess that means Ineos isn’t aware of your awesome and factual insight. Such a shame you can’t tell Mr Ratcliffe about your friends…

Fare thee well, random opinionated guy on the internet.

 

[Dual Grenny Guy]

My $0.02 wanted or not.

Like several on this forum, I also have 2 Grenadiers. I am leaving one “almost” (not touching the suspension/engine/height) completely stock. However, my 1st one has just about every add on you can have as I wanted it this way. Not worried about what ANY one else thinks. It’s my money and my vehicle & I hate seeing all the posters put down or say this or that is useless/worthless to do to a vehicle (yes it’s your right to say it, but why not just complement the owner doing what they want instead of being so negative, that’s just me). My modified one does have the Eibach 2.5” springs with 35” Toyo tires and Fox adjustable steering stabilizer and waiting on the King adjustable 2.5” shock kit (all corners). I drive both regularly, but to be completely honest the modded one is the only one that will see heavy off road use. So my personal driving experiences have been on the road/in traffic in the city really not much different. Maybe a slight more play in the modified one. On highway speeds honestly I can barely tell the difference. Now were I can feel a difference is in tight turns and very noticeably like when I back out of my driveway and go to turn the wheel to straighten up on to the road, the stock one you have to give it a little more shoulder power to get the wheel to turn/straighten up, but with the fox stabilizer it turns with easy. I don’t mind this at all and if I didn’t have the modified one I could of just as easily left it stick. However, in my personal experience I can’t agree with those that say the stock one steers/turns just as good as the fox ones, especially in tight turns. Again, I have both and not saying either is better, but having both and driving both I can definitely feel a difference. Don’t have a real off road trip planned until the end of the year, but will only be in the modified one so wont be able to compare them yet on my off road experiences with them.

Regarding all this steak talk, come on guys/gals, there is ONLY ONE way to eat steak…….good piece of meat, salt and pepper only then medium rare, more on the rarer side………now yall got me wanting to go to Ruth Chris Steakhouse (for all you non US peeps that a really good higher end steak house in the USA & they have the best Tomahawk steaks!! They do use a little too much butter, but still delicious! Of course IMO )!

I will admit, today being Saturday I am home watching college football and have been like a crack fein wanting to go get into one and go run an errand. Do other owners feel like that too? SERIOUSLY, it’s like a damn drug (wanting to be behind the wheel of a Grenadier)!!!

 

[Dokatd]

Everyone I know doesn’t mind the steering. I bought two of them because I liked it so much. Look at the forum posters above who have no problem with the steering. Have you not seen their posts?

I take mine off-road. I don’t want a rack and pinion feel or the problems that may occur under heavy duress. You may be another person that thinks the vehicle’s price dictates that it be a highway friendly, mall crawler that looks good splashing through a puddle on the way to Ruth’s Chris. That’s fine. But, IMHO, that’s not way it was made for. I’m guessing you’ve never had your Grenadier off-road, is that correct?

As for steak, a lot of people I know are vegetarians. Several others have an aversion to sodium. And some have zero control issues and simply eat what is brought.

The 2025 Grenadier is offered only with recirculating ball steering. The same goes with the Quartermaster. I guess that means Ineos isn’t aware of your awesome and factual insight. Such a shame you can’t tell Mr Ratcliffe about your friends…

Fare thee well, random opinionated guy on the internet.

Sorry you are so offended by this. And it’s unfortunate you feel the need to attack people.

And I have never stepped foot in. Ruth’s Chris in my life. Though I’m tempted by Dual Grennys review now.

I find it hilarious that you attribute my comments, opinions etc as a suggestion that people don’t have preferences. I also find it funny you are so protective of Ineos whom you presumably have no financial or personal connection to aside from owning a Grenadier. I also find it funny you attribute good steering exclusively to rack and pinion.

Ultimately I find credible evidence that you have not read this thread in detail and you’re just angry someone has a strong view that differs from yours and you just had to post about it.

You live in a beautiful state, go outside and breathe in the fresh air. Relax and enjoy your Grenadier in what ever form you prefer, I certainly don’t recall suggesting or demanding you change yours at all to suit my opinions or anyone else’s.

God I love the 1st and 2nd amendment.

 

[crashnburn]

Still have a '91 D90 and previously an FJ60, the steering doesn't bother me.
My only wish is for a better turning radius.

I steer away from steaks and pork....

 

[Dokatd]

Still have a '91 D90 and previously an FJ60, the steering doesn't bother me.
My only wish is for a better turning radius.

I steer away from steaks and pork....

Both nice trucks. Is it a 60 or a 62? My D90 was a ‘94 NAS and I do miss it. If you’re a Defender guy you might have seen Frankenrover. The Maroon 110 pickup thing with Unimog portals. I did all of the fabrication on that truck before its mission changed and it got a remodel.

Anyways, you say the G’s steering doesn’t bother you? I have to assume it’s stock correct. With that assumption, I ask does it feel “normal”. Does it feel like your D90 or FJ? Your comment that it doesn’t bother you simply implies it’s fine how it is, not that it’s ideal or normal in any capacity except that it gets the job done.

Assuming your answer to that question; would you swap out a part as simple as the steering stabilizer (assuming it was free or didn’t otherwise effect you monetarily) if it could bring your steering to a state that felt more normal or traditional. Especially if other people were expecting to drive your truck from time to time.

 

[Bruce B]

If you really want good steak, learn to cook it yourself! Perfectly cooked and perfectly seasoned.
It is far easier than making successful design changes to any automobile…