General Diesel or Petrol

[Davman]

I read that article.
Diesel engines in cars may well be gone in the next ten years, but they won’t go from commercial vehicles in Australia for a long long time yet. Even then, Diesel as a fuel will continue for long after I stop driving.

 

[globalgregors]

I read that article.
Diesel engines in cars may well be gone in the next ten years, but they won’t go from commercial vehicles in Australia for a long long time yet. Even then, Diesel as a fuel will continue for long after I stop driving.

Yes, agreed. The trend described by Todd in Australia in my view needs to examined alongside the transformation of the models mentioned from primarily commercial/agricultural use cases to urban/family SUV use. Those models offer less for the remote/mining/commercial buyer (hence the market opening for the Grenadier) and target an increasingly urban population better served by petrol engines and candidates for electrification.

The exception here is mine sites, where hydrogen if not EVs are a practicable option due to the short range travel and the desire to offset the emissions of heavy vehicle fleets.

So many less diesels perhaps but as you say likely a persistent set of use cases and niche products like the IG.

 

[Logsplitter]

Further to my earlier post and thoughts on the petrol or diesel choice for overlanding . Here’s a link to the utube channel. “The road chose me”

 

[DCPU]

 

[WhiteBear]

Thanks, quite interesting. I would like to know the percentage of tax that is part of the price.

 

[Logsplitter]

I will take a punt on the petrol. Breaking down in the middle of Kazakhstan or Mauritania with failed emissions equipment would outweigh the benefits of getting a modern diesel, for me. I suppose it all depends where you intend to operate your Grenadier. If I aimed to stay in countries with quality diesel of below 50ppm sulphur content, then I would definitely go for a diesel. But as a lot of my travels are always in developing countries with only high sulphur diesel available, then a petrol vehicle is a safer bet than a modern diesel vehicle with all the added emissions equipment. As Ineos representatives themselves have advised towards getting a petrol version for world travels, then I’ll take their advice. I guess if you do have major breakdowns and a fault could be blamed on poor quality fuel, then the warranty would be void. The Ineos Grenadier website clearly states a maximum of 50ppm sulphur content for diesel is the upper limit.

 

[emax]

Thanks, quite interesting. I would like to know the percentage of tax that is part of the price.

Just compare to e.g. Bahrain, Equador or Tunisia.

 

[bemax]

I know that everybody from Ineos is in favour to the petrol engine for various reasons. I also think that they have to pay more to BMW for the diesel engine. It is probably just a coincidence and I ado understand a lot of the arguments in favour of the petrol one. Anyhow I will stick to the diesel as it is the motor most adequate to the IG (where I will use it)

 

[Tazzieman]

$1.04 = $1.56 in Australia.
I'm paying well over $2 so that table is suspect. Unless it's wholesale.

 

[Manuel4x4]

I have traveled twice from Spain to Senegal with my old landcruiser kzj95 and I never had any problem with the diesel. It was an indirect injection diesel engine of this more than 20 years ago. But I am sure that the injectors of the modern diesel include us the Ineos will not support this diesel.
If you want to tour the third world, I advise you to use gasoline, even in the most remote places in the world I have seen gasoline cyclone and it is always available.

 

[globalgregors]

View attachment 7795439

Ah, fuel prices in Iran... those were the days!

 

[emax]

$1.04 = $1.56 in Australia.
I'm paying well over $2 so that table is suspect. Unless it's wholesale.

Maybe it's one of those "fuel-is-way-to-cheap" planet-rescuers "fact"-sheets ... ?

 

[DCPU]

$1.04 = $1.56 in Australia.
I'm paying well over $2 so that table is suspect. Unless it's wholesale.

Unless you are just buying in an expensive place?

Gasoline prices in Tasmania, Australia - 02-Dec-2024 | GlobalPetrolPrices.com

We show Octane-95 gasoline price data for Tasmania from 26-Aug-2024 to 02-Dec-2024. The average gasoline price during that period is 1.72 per liter with a minimum of 1.68 on 30-Sep-2024 and a maximum of 1.79 on 26-Aug-2024.

www.globalpetrolprices.com

 

[grenadierboy]

Unless you are just buying in an expensive place?
View attachment 7795445

Gasoline prices in Tasmania, Australia - 02-Dec-2024 | GlobalPetrolPrices.com

We show Octane-95 gasoline price data for Tasmania from 26-Aug-2024 to 02-Dec-2024. The average gasoline price during that period is 1.72 per liter with a minimum of 1.68 on 30-Sep-2024 and a maximum of 1.79 on 26-Aug-2024.

www.globalpetrolprices.com

The graph is sort of right because many months ago the Federal Govt temporarily reduced a large slice of the tax they apply to every litre, because they were facing an election & joe public had his/her "hair on fire" because of recent price increases. That slice of tax is back on.

 

[Tazzieman]

The graph is sort of right because many months ago the Federal Govt temporarily reduced a large slice of the tax they apply to every litre, because they were facing an election & joe public had his/her "hair on fire" because of recent price increases. That slice of tax is back on.

Exactly. Many litres were sold at the low price but now people are choosing to walk again
My Disco 1 runs fine on 91 , sub $2 but several other old German cars require 95-8.

 

[globalgregors]

I will take a punt on the petrol. Breaking down in the middle of Kazakhstan or Mauritania with failed emissions equipment would outweigh the benefits of getting a modern diesel, for me. I suppose it all depends where you intend to operate your Grenadier. If I aimed to stay in countries with quality diesel of below 50ppm sulphur content, then I would definitely go for a diesel. But as a lot of my travels are always in developing countries with only high sulphur diesel available, then a petrol vehicle is a safer bet than a modern diesel vehicle with all the added emissions equipment. As Ineos representatives themselves have advised towards getting a petrol version for world travels, then I’ll take their advice. I guess if you do have major breakdowns and a fault could be blamed on poor quality fuel, then the warranty would be void. The Ineos Grenadier website clearly states a maximum of 50ppm sulphur content for diesel is the upper limit.

DPF issues such as these trigger [I understand by EU regulation] limp mode, they don’t stop the vehicle.

Having gone into limp mode as a result of putting high-sulphur diesel through a Euro5 emissions system (clogging the DPF) I note it is undoubtedly a PITA but not too difficult to sort once one grasps the precise issue. It is a diffrent set of issues than the usual DPF failures and consequently doesn’t typically require the replacement of the DPF. Not that a mechanic is likely to tell you that: those working in areas with high-sulphur diesel have little experience with such emission systems, while those working in areas with low-sulphur diesel have little experience with sulphur deposition-related symptoms. Learned this the hard way, of course.

Point being it takes weeks/months for the problem to accumulate. It should be more accurately thought of as an additional maintence/service task than a failure point or vulnerability. Drive in dusty areas and one will need to manually clean the air filter between replacements. Drive in a high sulphur fuel environment and it may be prudent to manually remove and clean/inspect the DPF (and sensor circuit) when servicing the vehicle.

I am no engineer, this was just my experience with the SD4 in Central Asia and Iran.
It does lead me to confidently purchase the diesel with global use in mind.

Besides, there are worse places to get stuck for a few days than Almaty! Mauritania I can’t speak for…

 

[Logsplitter]

Fair enough , point taken. There’s no right and wrong just a difference of approach and opinion.
I guess it also depends on how much time you intend to spend in areas with high sulphur fuel. My Landrover defender 2.2tdci. Did so many dpf regenerations that I needed to change engine oil way more than I would have liked and had oil for. Finding extra low saps oil in many countries is next to impossible. Added to to that a euro6 diesel needs adblue as well Even more stuff to carry around.
I was getting around 20mpg with the Landy loaded with roof rack , roof tent ,awning etc. I figure I should be able to achieve that with a petrol Grenadier. I’m sure we’ll all be happy with our choice of Grenadier regardless of whether it’s petrol or diesel powered. And the petrol and diesel versions will have way more low down torque than the Landy has.
I don’t know if you’ve read the blog from Tucks Truck. He has a good write up on euro 5 Iveco and high sulphur fuel. Link attached. https://www.tuckstruck.net/truck-and-kit/the-truck-technical-stuff/fuel-issues/

 

[globalgregors]

Fair enough , point taken. There’s no right and wrong just a difference of approach and opinion.
I guess it also depends on how much time you intend to spend in areas with high sulphur fuel. My Landrover defender 2.2tdci. Did so many dpf regenerations that I needed to change engine oil way more than I would have liked and had oil for. Finding extra low saps oil in many countries is next to impossible. Added to to that a euro6 diesel needs adblue as well Even more stuff to carry around.
I was getting around 20mpg with the Landy loaded with roof rack , roof tent ,awning etc. I figure I should be able to achieve that with a petrol Grenadier. I’m sure we’ll all be happy with our choice of Grenadier regardless of whether it’s petrol or diesel powered. And the petrol and diesel versions will have way more low down torque than the Landy has.
I don’t know if you’ve read the blog from Tucks Truck. He has a good write up on euro 5 Iveco and high sulphur fuel. Link attached. https://www.tuckstruck.net/truck-and-kit/the-truck-technical-stuff/fuel-issues/

Yes, Tucks Truck is a great resource on this and also the high altitude use discussed elsewhere.

Of course I wasn’t challenging your choice, but rather just sharing the learning that the DPF issues in question are fairly easily managed. I wish I’d known this before replacing mine (unnecessarily, as it turns out) at LRs suggestion, it seems because the mentality was ”Problem with the DPF => Replace the DPF”.

The rectification sequence I would now follow is:

1. Auto regeneration =>
2. (use additive) do a manual override regeneration =>
3. remove the DPF and physically inspect both the filter and sensor circuit* for ash =>
4. blast with compressed air (reinspect) =>
5. clean with water (reinspect) =>
6. clean with solvent (reinspect) =>
7. consider replacement if still obstructed.

Or the nuclear option, delete the system, which I would not recommend but which would be prudent if the vehicle was going to perform its service in Iraq or Venezuela or something.

I put that down for the intetest of Aussie/diesel buyers who may be following the thread and puzzling about how to troubleshoot/maintain the system for themselves.

Anyway, learning shared.

More importantly, where are you planning to take your Grenadier? Adventure awaits!

* My system was tripping because crusty little sulphurous deposits (which don’t burn off as the ash does) were breaking free and clogging the sensor circuit, which then reported a ‘full’ filter (ie the sensor compares pressure before and after the filter). Turns out all one needed to do roadside was pop off the sensor tubes and blow them out. I’m speculating but this might have been why Logsplitter was seeing repeated regenerations. Only way to remove the root cause sulphurous crust from the DPF though is regular additive (which may have consequences for injectors?) or to blast it out by hand.

 

[DaveB]

Maybe it's one of those "fuel-is-way-to-cheap" planet-rescuers "fact"-sheets ... ?

I paid $2.39 for Diesel yesterday on the Gold Coast
Don't trust anyone who can't spell Litre correctly

 

[Stu_Barnes]

I paid $2.39 for Diesel yesterday on the Gold Coast
Don't trust anyone who can't spell Litre correctly

Ha.

Before it starts.

“There is no difference between liter or litre. Litre is used by all English speaking countries influenced by Europe or British English and Liter is preferred by American English.”

Colour color. Take your pick. Both the same.