Crystal Ball gazing - Petrol v Diesel

[Davman]

Yeah nah, I’d like to see the math on that. Maybe once apon a time.

You laid down the challenge bro.
In Melbourne Today, the average prices for fuel are:
Unleaded 91 - $209.9
Unleaded 95 - $221.9
Diesel - $233.9

Using the lowest fuel figures for the IG being:
Petrol - 12.9 L/100
Diesel - 10.1 L/100

Then travelling 100 kilometres with the following fuels would cost.
Unleaded 91 - $27.07
Unleaded 95 - $28.62
Diesel - $23.62

There you go. I wont rub it in, as this may just be Melbourne prices. But since I live in Melbourne, therefore I am correct.

 

[bigleonski]

You laid down the challenge bro.
In Melbourne Today, the average prices for fuel are:
Unleaded 91 - $209.9
Unleaded 95 - $221.9
Diesel - $233.9

Using the lowest fuel figures for the IG being:
Petrol - 12.9 L/100
Diesel - 10.1 L/100

Then travelling 100 kilometres with the following fuels would cost.
Unleaded 91 - $27.07
Unleaded 95 - $28.62
Diesel - $23.62

There you go. I wont rub it in, as this may just be Melbourne prices. But since I live in Melbourne, therefore I am correct.

Except unleaded is $1.80 up here and diesel $2.30. . So it’s lineball.

But you jsut drove an IG so you win anyway.

 

[Davman]

Ok, I will give you the $.40 cents per 100 kays then.

 

[Logsplitter]

For the high sulfur problem it seems to be possible to deactivate the the exhaust gas recirculation. This is probably a software thing, in which case it could be done on the fly.

You probably can deactivate the egr valve as I’ve had done on my defender. But will probably invalidate the warranty on a new vehicle and won’t help with the dpf clogging up.
The diesel v petrol debate will go on forever. I suppose only time will tell which is the right choice and all dependant on individual circumstances

 

[bigleonski]

On another note, if anyone expects to get 10-13/L per 100km from a 3+ tonne modified 4wd around town they’d be dreaming right?

 

[emax]

I agree with you for 10L around town. But 13 liters is doable, and if the motor and gearbox is on operating temperature, it should even be less.

The Grenadier, unless equipped for the Simpson Desert, does not weigh 3+ tons, btw.

 

[bigleonski]

I agree with you for 10L around town. But 13 liters is doable, and if the motor and gearbox is on operating temperature, it should even be less.

The Grenadier, unless equipped for the Simpson Desert, does not weigh 3+ tons, btw.

I can get 12-13L /100 on the highway doing 100k/hr but nowhere else. But I’ve got a heavy loaded 3+ tonne 4.5L TTD on 33’s - I don’t expect much.

 

[emax]

So you have a bit more drag and weight and a bigger engine than the Grenadier. But we all know that it depends very much on the driving style (and the traffic of course, but that's a thing we have no influence on).

 

[bigleonski]

I have influence on my driving style, I just choose to ignore it.

 

[G-Man]

I am going with dIesel in the hope that the current work being done on diesel/hydrogen conversions has been successful and is a commercially viable option.

Engineers from UNSW Sydney have successfully converted a diesel engine to run as a hydrogen-diesel hybrid engine, reducing the CO2 emissions by more than 85 per cent in the process.10/10/2022

Diesel engines retrofitted to run on 90 per cent hydrogen | E&T Magazine​

The article on this hydrogen-diesel hybrid engine is a bit clumsy and misleading. If you look into the detail a bit more, it's not an engine that runs mostly on hydrogen, it's actually a diesel engine that injects hydrogen into the combustion chambers rather than using fresh air drawn from the atmosphere (which is a mostly Nitrogen/Oxygen mix by default). By altering the chemical mix in the combustion chamber they produce less CO2 and NOx. as a result.

The reference to 90% Hydrogen isn't the ratio of Hydrogen to Diesel consumption, it's actually the required purity of the Hydrogen gas that's fed into the engine (i.e. the other 10% in your Hydrogen tank can be other other gases). As I understand it, Hydrogen purity is essential for fuel cell cars where you're combining Hydrogen and Oxygen to produce water and electricity, but in this application you can get away with a less stringent Hydrogen supply as it's just getting squirted into a good old fashioned oil burner!

So my guess is you'd burn roughly the same amount of diesel as before but an additional hydrogen tank and engine-mounted hydrogen injection gubbins is required in order to convert it to what is effectively a cleaner burning diesel engine.

 

[Trialmaster]

I think whatever power plant is fitted we will be deemed as anti-social in the coming years. For me the onset of Hydrogen powered IG can't come soon enough.

You already have righteous do-gooders letting tyres down on 4x4's in Blighty as a demonstration against such vehicles.

Furthermore, we all know the advertised MPG of these vehicles is pretty poor, regardless of whether it's petrol or diesel.

 

[renli3d]

There's been a lot of discussions about the pro's and con's of the two engines. I don't seek to rehash the points about range, torque, servicing costs etc. My question is a bit more specific.

Given the IG is built to last a few decades ... and given most countries have committed to full EV only new cars by 2035, it's timely to, stare into our tealeaves, scatter our chicken bones, or turn our tarot cards, in order to try to work out which of these two ICE engines will be the better choice in 2035 ... 2045 and beyond.

Let's assume that by 2035, all new cars being sold around the world are EV's, then the demand for petrol and diesel should be declining. My two competing thoughts are:
1. in an EV dominated world (2035 and beyond), the diesel will be seen as the dirtier of the two ICE options and hence less accepted - thus I should choose Petrol;
2. in an EV dominated world (2035 and beyond), diesel will still be critically needed to run heavy machinery, whereas petrol may become superfluous (used only in aging cars and two stroke lawn mowers), and hence less available/affordable - thus I should choose Diesel.

Thoughts?

For some reason I read your post using the voice of the Sicilian from the Princess Bride film.

 

[G-Man]

For some reason I read your post using the voice of the Sicilian from the Princess Bride film.

Inconceivable

 

[G-Man]

I think whatever power plant is fitted we will be deemed as anti-social in the coming years. For me the onset of Hydrogen powered IG can't come soon enough.

You already have righteous do-gooders letting tyres down on 4x4's in Blighty as a demonstration against such vehicles.

Furthermore, we all know the advertised MPG of these vehicles is pretty poor, regardless of whether it's petrol or diesel.

The electric SWB Tonka truck version really would be hitting the zeitgeist square on. That'll be their main focus to begin with.

Coming to a city centre near you soon