Americas Don't buy a Grenadier (Steering pump noise and HVAC issues)

IdahoGrenadier · May 16, 2024

dreamalaska said:
I suspect Ineos will come out with a sound deadening shroud over the electric hydraulic power steering fluid pump to mitigate its whine. Of course the sound coming from the turbo is a different whine and one that some users accentuate and enjoy.

This seems unlikely when the response is "that's what it's supposed to do". I've seen a lot of vehicles. It isn't normal.

The dealership said they listened to their other ones and heard the same whine, but there are plenty of videos on the Internet that don't include it. I'm wondering if it was a design or component change or just a manufacturing issue.

IdahoGrenadier · May 16, 2024

terdrocket said:
So, you're saying that I shouldn't have bought mine?

I hope it works out for you, just like I hope it works out for me. But yeah, the company's response has led me to believe that there's much more risk than I was assuming.

AngusMacG · May 16, 2024

Tcon82 said:
I have the same whine but can tell you that between my test drive and waiting to buy my car (took 3 hours because dealer was busy that day) I sat on the lot and watched Rusnak in Socal move 15-20 cars in and out either for test drives or to sell/move them. Every one of the vehicles that they turned on had the whine. I know some people have not experienced it at all but figured i would share my experience that based on the sample set I saw it is at least more common to have the whine than not. The whine doesn't bug me near enough to not like the car but that is a personal preference. Some have said that the whine reduces over time. I would be curious to know if anyone has experienced this and how many miles they currently have on the car.

I am approaching 12k miles since the end of January. No reduction in whine loudness.

IdahoGrenadier · May 16, 2024

Tcon82 said:
I have the same whine but can tell you that between my test drive and waiting to buy my car (took 3 hours because dealer was busy that day) I sat on the lot and watched Rusnak in Socal move 15-20 cars in and out either for test drives or to sell/move them. Every one of the vehicles that they turned on had the whine. I know some people have not experienced it at all but figured i would share my experience that based on the sample set I saw it is at least more common to have the whine than not. The whine doesn't bug me near enough to not like the car but that is a personal preference. Some have said that the whine reduces over time. I would be curious to know if anyone has experienced this and how many miles they currently have on the car.

The feedback that the whine reduces over time implies to me that either the vane is wearing or the fluid was not properly bled to begin with. Neither supports IA's assertion that this is just the noise that electric pumps make and everything is fine.

IdahoGrenadier · May 16, 2024

Jeremy996 said:
I think you need to push back against IA and your dealer.

Video your vehicle and a Grenadier without the whine and create a small YouTube video. Leave the date and timestamp on. Leave it as unlisted and send a link to IA and the dealer, and tell them that when it fails, you expect an immediate replacement. Tell them both they are on the clock for the Lemon Laws, too, (assuming you have them).

I certainly think anyone with the whine should document it by taking it in. I have my documentation. That means if it fails after the warranty period or in a way that causes damages, it was clearly a manufacturing defect.

IdahoGrenadier · May 16, 2024

SkiBum1 said:
Clearly everyone has a different vehicle, dealer and experience. However, the vast majority of people have solid vehicles with zero or very minor issues that have been sorted out by their dealer.

The people that have issues resulting in them abandoning the brand entirely (at least in the USA) have no idea how to communicate with their dealer, don’t know their legal rights and local laws and simply accept the issues they have. The reality is that as consumers, we have ALOT of protection for manufacturing defects and dealers and the manufacturer has a strong legal obligation to repair or replace.

I have seen numerous people on this forum debate and complain about issues that are clearly covered under a warranty as if they have zero support at all. It is as if many people here have no experience buying a new car off a dealers lot and experience with warranty issues.

As for me, no big problems. Love my Ineos and wish I could buy another to squirrel away as a classic! Simply love it. Knauz in Lake Forest did great and my experience positive. Bigger gas tank, sure, I would love that.

Relax folks, just go back to the dealer and demand your consumer rights.

If it were the dealer, that'd be one thing. But IA is the ones telling them it's normal and others on this forum have had the same response from IA.

IdahoGrenadier · May 16, 2024

TanisIndependentTraders said:
interesting first post... drive by LR fan?

FWIW, mine has been solid >3 months and >4k miles (knocks on wood)

I'd have to be a hell of an LR fan to drop $95k just to have something to complain about.

Your experience proves my point. There are problems with some vehicles IA doesn't want to fix so they say it's just the design. Even though others don't have the same problem.

I was also told the solution to the leather trim coming apart on the hand brake was "don't pull it all the way up". That's not a solution.

Zimm · May 16, 2024

Oh c'mon. some people have logic issues. If you already bought it and its fine, then by definition it's FINE. On the other hand, if you haven't yet purchased it, the odds of problems may be unacceptable at the pricepoint as this is far from the only issue. QA was terrible and the QC seems to be dragging.

Frankly, I just looked today at the dealer and saw my order vin is now published for general sale, so I came here to remind myself and this is the third from the top.

Addressing this specifically, irritating noise can be torturous, The ear is a direct channel. Wanna trigger PTSD? It'll be a noise. It's the best thing out there to screw with a detainee. It's why we use it. Downplaying noise is kinda comical. Those that do definitely haven't ever had an "issue".

A whiny pump is unacceptable in a ford fiesta, let alone this, and being in Idaho without a dealer close and no warranty? The OP is in the "no buy" zone.

Shopkeep · May 17, 2024

IdahoGrenadier said:
I've loved everything about the philosophy behind the Grenadier. 1,500 miles in and it's great off-road, looks great on road, and tows 6k pounds like a dream. I was willing to overlook the embarrassingly bad software that means button presses don't get recognized, it takes 30 seconds every time to turn off the speed clicker, and Android Auto disconnects every time you cross a lane line without the turn signal on.

But I've got to say you shouldn't buy one. My power steering pump makes a horrible whine that keeps me from driving with the windows down. (A separate whistle from the blend door prevents running the AC on full.) I get so many great comments when the engine is off. But when it's running, everyone asks me about the embarrassing, obviously-not-right whine from the pump. IA has told my dealer it's normal, even though some of them don't make it and no other vehicle I've ever heard makes this sound unless the lines weren't bled or the vane is going out.

Others on the forum have the same problem. Unlike the software and blend door, which IA acknowledges and promises a future fix, they are refusing to consider this obvious defect a problem. And that means the warranty is not worth anything.

So I gotta say regretfully, if you are on the fence, don't buy it.

Lucky you did not have the option of buying a diesel, you and your onlookers would have loved the racket a DPF burn makes!

FWIW I can hear a noise from my power steering when actively steering at low speeds with windows down (but that's the noise a recirculating ball steering system on a heavy vehicle usually makes???), but not when driving at normal speeds. Then again the diesel is a noisier power unit so maybe that masks other sounds.

Scratch that, just tried it with the windows down and the whine has gone, they do get better with use after all.

staitleman · May 17, 2024

IdahoGrenadier said:
I've loved everything about the philosophy behind the Grenadier. 1,500 miles in and it's great off-road, looks great on road, and tows 6k pounds like a dream. I was willing to overlook the embarrassingly bad software that means button presses don't get recognized, it takes 30 seconds every time to turn off the speed clicker, and Android Auto disconnects every time you cross a lane line without the turn signal on.

But I've got to say you shouldn't buy one. My power steering pump makes a horrible whine that keeps me from driving with the windows down. (A separate whistle from the blend door prevents running the AC on full.) I get so many great comments when the engine is off. But when it's running, everyone asks me about the embarrassing, obviously-not-right whine from the pump. IA has told my dealer it's normal, even though some of them don't make it and no other vehicle I've ever heard makes this sound unless the lines weren't bled or the vane is going out.

Others on the forum have the same problem. Unlike the software and blend door, which IA acknowledges and promises a future fix, they are refusing to consider this obvious defect a problem. And that means the warranty is not worth anything.

So I gotta say regretfully, if you are on the fence, don't buy it.

What did you expect with a new car? They’ve actually done quite well. So the software is wonky, a gremlin here or there. If you just got it fixed you make enjoy the next 10 years hassle free. I had sensors going off and stuff like that. It went away on its own. Maybe some day they’ll do a proper fix for the software or head unit. Mine is the best car I’ve ever purchased. I still like it more than the previous day.

landmannnn · May 17, 2024

If Car Dealers for Dummies existed (it might), chapter 1 would have following sections:

-They all do that sir.
-The manufacturer is working on a solution.
-I've never heard of that problem.
-The problem will go away when you have driven xx thousand miles.
-We don't have Technical Service Bulletins here.

Most commonly found at Nissan and JLR service centres.

Krabby · May 17, 2024

Don't forget "unable to replicate issue."

terdrocket · May 17, 2024

IdahoGrenadier said:
I hope it works out for you, just like I hope it works out for me. But yeah, the company's response has led me to believe that there's much more risk than I was assuming.

For me, the risk was there from the start.
I could have backed out at any point; configuration and deposit, dealer location announcement, production greenlight, purchase and delivery.
At every point I said yes knowing full well this was a gamble; with a new car company, with a first time model, from a foreign country, in a worsening economy.
I am still glad that I did.

Mountain4x4 · May 17, 2024

landmannnn said:
If Car Dealers for Dummies existed (it might), chapter 1 would have following sections:

-They all do that sir.
-The manufacturer is working on a solution.
-I've never heard of that problem.
-The problem will go away when you have driven xx thousand miles.
-We don't have Technical Service Bulletins here.

Most commonly found at Nissan and JLR service centres.

Off topic but so right about Nissan. My 2005 Xterra diff exploded 2nd time off road and it was a major design flaw corrected while we were in litigation and they claimed to know nothing. I stopped in at a Nissan Dealer 2 days ago looking for another company vehicle and it was the most low rent, ghetto experience I have seen. They have really fallen.

IdahoGrenadier · May 17, 2024

Zimm said:
Oh c'mon. some people have logic issues. If you already bought it and its fine, then by definition it's FINE. On the other hand, if you haven't yet purchased it, the odds of problems may be unacceptable at the pricepoint as this is far from the only issue. QA was terrible and the QC seems to be dragging.

Frankly, I just looked today at the dealer and saw my order vin is now published for general sale, so I came here to remind myself and this is the third from the top.

Addressing this specifically, irritating noise can be torturous, The ear is a direct channel. Wanna trigger PTSD? It'll be a noise. It's the best thing out there to screw with a detainee. It's why we use it. Downplaying noise is kinda comical. Those that do definitely haven't ever had an "issue".

A whiny pump is unacceptable in a ford fiesta, let alone this, and being in Idaho without a dealer close and no warranty? The OP is in the "no buy" zone.

Thanks for the support, but just as a correction, I live two minutes from my dealer in Idaho. When I left it with them I walked home.

Icgreen3 · May 17, 2024

I hate to say it because I do love this truck, but there seems to be some similarities with Land Rover ownership and now Grenadier ownership. Meaning just deal with it/charm/quirks etc.. I’m not willing to be an early adopter at this stage particularly at 90k and no real dealer support. Maybe in a year or two. I know I will catch a lot of grief for this, but I’m having LR flashbacks.

IdahoGrenadier · May 17, 2024

Icgreen3 said:
I hate to say it because I do love this truck, but there seems to be some similarities with Land Rover ownership and now Grenadier ownership. Meaning just deal with it/charm/quirks etc.. I’m not willing to be an early adopter at this stage particularly at 90k and no real dealer support. Maybe in a year or two. I know I will catch a lot of grief for this, but I’m having LR flashbacks.

I don't mind the early adopter issues. The audacity of the project is something I wanted to support and be a part of. But when 100% of people who see the vehicle know there's something wrong and IA tries to say it's normal, that does have a JLR feel. Maybe this old Toyota guy just can't make the transition into that world.

IdahoGrenadier · May 17, 2024

Since some have questioned my ownership status. Apparently, mine has the vehicle's intended function and all of you with quiet power steering pumps need to get yours fixed ASAP before something bad happens.

Psignore00 · May 17, 2024

I have the same high pitch whine from my power steering pump and have accepted it as part of the vehicle. If the vehicle is not running, the people ask about the vehicle. If the vehicle is running, they ask me what the whine sound is.

I will say that from what I understand and have experienced, the sound happens when there is pressure on the steering and the wheels aren’t moving (what you described as idle).

Stu_Barnes · May 17, 2024

IdahoGrenadier said:
I've loved everything about the philosophy behind the Grenadier. 1,500 miles in and it's great off-road, looks great on road, and tows 6k pounds like a dream. I was willing to overlook the embarrassingly bad software that means button presses don't get recognized, it takes 30 seconds every time to turn off the speed clicker, and Android Auto disconnects every time you cross a lane line without the turn signal on.

But I've got to say you shouldn't buy one. My power steering pump makes a horrible whine that keeps me from driving with the windows down. (A separate whistle from the blend door prevents running the AC on full.) I get so many great comments when the engine is off. But when it's running, everyone asks me about the embarrassing, obviously-not-right whine from the pump. IA has told my dealer it's normal, even though some of them don't make it and no other vehicle I've ever heard makes this sound unless the lines weren't bled or the vane is going out.

Others on the forum have the same problem. Unlike the software and blend door, which IA acknowledges and promises a future fix, they are refusing to consider this obvious defect a problem. And that means the warranty is not worth anything.

So I gotta say regretfully, if you are on the fence, don't buy it.

Ask for a copy of the ticket that was raised with IA. If they tried to submit it as a warranty claim then it will have a ticket number associated with it.

A major problem is that dealers are not escalating things to IA, then are subsequently fobbing customers off and blaming the manufacturer. The human factor is really coming into play and not in the best of ways sometimes. I'm not suggesting that this is the case here but I know it has been elsewhere.

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