Americas Don't buy a Grenadier (Steering pump noise and HVAC issues)

[Stu_Barnes]

Since some have questioned my ownership status. Apparently, mine has the vehicle's intended function and all of you with quiet power steering pumps need to get yours fixed ASAP before something bad happens.

I read this as your dealer saying there is not problem with the steering pump and not IA. I'd push back on this and pick a random vehicle on their lot to compare it to.

The fan noise is pretty common and I understand this is being worked on (mine has the same as well as different temperature air blowing out of different vents)

 

[IdahoGrenadier]

I read this as your dealer saying there is not problem with the steering pump and not IA. I'd push back on this and pick a random vehicle on their lot to compare it to.

The fan noise is pretty common and I understand this is being worked on (mine has the same as well as different temperature air blowing out of different vents)

Thanks. Verbally they told me Ineos directed them to listen to it compared with their other rigs, which they did, which is why they say in the write up that it sounds comparable to others. It seems like most of the newer ones are doing this.

I've separately opened an issue directly with IA and gotten nowhere, so I'm inclined to believe my dealer that IA blew them off, as well. I just followed the other advice here and requested the IA ticket number from my dealer. I'll transition to blaming them if they turn out not to have one.

 

[Stu_Barnes]

Thanks. Verbally they told me Ineos directed them to listen to it compared with their other rigs, which they did, which is why they say in the write up that it sounds comparable to others. It seems like most of the newer ones are doing this.

I've separately opened an issue directly with IA and gotten nowhere, so I'm inclined to believe my dealer that IA blew them off, as well. I just followed the other advice here and requested the IA ticket number from my dealer. I'll transition to blaming them if they turn out not to have one.

trust but verify.....

 

[Jean Mercier]

Since some have questioned my ownership status. Apparently, mine has the vehicle's intended function and all of you with quiet power steering pumps need to get yours fixed ASAP before something bad happens.

I see your dealer is a Mercedes dealer!
I wish you good luck, mine is a Mercedes dealer too

 

[evomind]

A Land Rover "vibe?"
This thing is LR all over again.
I cant count count how many times LR owners were so counting on some fix, some update, some download, some support and it never came.
And their customers went and bought another new one.
LR figured well what's the problem then?
I know folks challenge me when I say its a British vehicle, yeah I know this is made here, that is made there, but to me its still a British vehicle with everything that makes it great and everything that makes it frustrating.

 

[Skydance]

Since some have questioned my ownership status. Apparently, mine has the vehicle's intended function and all of you with quiet power steering pumps need to get yours fixed ASAP before something bad happens

On the issue with point C. Whistle from fan when flaps/actuators are stuck in certain position. It would whistle on windy days or on the highway. Initially I thought it was from the window seal or to do with the shape of the vehicle. It would only happen on Auto but if you set to fan speed 1 or 2, there was no whistle.

Anyway, the fix was done unexpectedly by my dealer. Ineos have no idea of the fix. All they did is perform a hard reset using the Ineos diagnostic gear. NO more whistling and the flaps and actuators work properly. Ie cold air blowing at the front and the rear as it should be.

But don’t mistake this for the high pitch frequency noise on fan speed 4. This is still outstanding and Ineos are aware of it. I have had my heater matrix swapped and it’s still the same.

Ask your dealer for a hard reset to see if helps the HVAC and battery charge

 

[Shopkeep]

The feedback that the whine reduces over time implies to me that either the vane is wearing or the fluid was not properly bled to begin with. Neither supports IA's assertion that this is just the noise that electric pumps make and everything is fine.

Have you tried bleeding the power steering yourself to rule this out? Usually a fairly basic process, but then again would have thought that with use any air would have worked its way back to the reservoir by now.

 

[bemax]

Have you tried bleeding the power steering yourself to rule this out? Usually a fairly basic process, but then again would have thought that with use any air would have worked its way back to the reservoir by now.

But should that be the action one takes with a new car?
I don’t have a problem with doing things on my own but here I would not act on my own as long as the guarantee is not voided.

 

[Shopkeep]

But should that be the action one takes with a new cat?
I don’t have a problem with doing things on my own but here I would not act on my own as long as the guarantee is not voided.

You should not have to do it, but you can stand on principle or embrace your reality. Bleeding the power steering is such a simple process you would assume that the dealer would have tried it. No tools required (except maybe a cloth or rag), invest 5 to 10 minutes of your life and get to know your vehicle a bit better.

 

[Icgreen3]

I don't mind the early adopter issues. The audacity of the project is something I wanted to support and be a part of. But when 100% of people who see the vehicle know there's something wrong and IA tries to say it's normal, that does have a JLR feel. Maybe this old Toyota guy just can't make the transition into that world.

So I have a 2024 FE LC just came in. Drove it yesterday it is for my wife. We both drove it and like the on road manners speed etc.. after we drove away our conclusion arrived at separately is it is just not the same as our old 200 and it has a mid life crisis look to it. The IG has a natural exciting feel to it that people who like adventure are drawn to. Conclusion LC will be cancelled and keeping the IG on order even if it means growing pains.

 

[J&J]

So I have a 2024 FE LC just came in. Drove it yesterday it is for my wife. We both drove it and like the on road manners speed etc.. after we drove away our conclusion arrived at separately is it is just not the same as our old 200 and it has a mid life crisis look to it. The IG has a natural exciting feel to it that people who like adventure are drawn to. Conclusion LC will be cancelled and keeping the IG on order even if it means growing pains.

Bought an IG for my wife as well. Took delivery end of January. A few small issues in the beginning and Mossy Ineos (Houston) resolved them quickly. I can say that we love the Gren. The more you drive it ….the more you appreciate it for what it is. Looking forward to a decade and more of adventure.

 

[IdahoGrenadier]

I'm not messing with something that's wrong on a $90k vehicle because I don't want to give an excuse to say I exacerbated a problem. Especially with no service manuals. (I'll touch the stuff that's working fine plenty.) But this "normal" behavior that sounds like air in the system is now accompanied by reservoir overflowing that looks like air in the system.

The question is why are so many NA Grenadiers getting air in the system and where is it coming from? You know, or did IA just forget to bleed them and won't tell the dealers to spend 10 minutes on it?

 

[anand]

The question is why are so many NA Grenadiers getting air in the system and where is it coming from? You know, or did IA just forget to bleed them and won't tell the dealers to spend 10 minutes on it?

That looks more like the vented cap on the PS system venting itself

 

[IdahoGrenadier]

That looks more like the vented cap on the PS system venting itself

Exactly. The PS fluid is not supposed to foam and vent out, but it will when it has air mixed in.

You must be an LR guy with a "fluid leaking is how you know there is still fluid in there" mentality

 

[DaveB]

Thanks. Verbally they told me Ineos directed them to listen to it compared with their other rigs, which they did, which is why they say in the write up that it sounds comparable to others. It seems like most of the newer ones are doing this.

I've separately opened an issue directly with IA and gotten nowhere, so I'm inclined to believe my dealer that IA blew them off, as well. I just followed the other advice here and requested the IA ticket number from my dealer. I'll transition to blaming them if they turn out not to have one.

When I wasn't happy with how my dealer was handling the problem with the rear door open alarm I raised a ticket with Ineos direct.
Their response was excellent and they said all dealers would be able to see the results of the ticket and they gave me the ticket number as well.
I changed dealers and found the new dealer had not only not fixed the problem, but hadn't even read the ticket response from Ineos.

They tried to give me back the still faulty vehicle.
I had told them about the Ineos response when I booked it in but this detail never made it to the shop floor.
I refused the vehicle back and again pointed out the ticket number and what needed to be done.

They discussed this and told me they had missed that and would have to order in the parts.
I then pointed out Robert Peppers interview with Justin Hocevar, where Justin says he authorised dealers to remove parts from showroom and demo vehicles to get customers on the road.

They agreed to do it.
I went for a walk and got some lunch and a coffee.
When I returned I had a vehicle with no faults and alarms, along with the display software update.

The vehicle has just been a complete pleasure to drive, park, lock etc etc since that time.

 

[anand]

You must be an LR guy with a "fluid leaking is how you know there is still fluid in there" mentality

Never owned a LR (or any other British vehicle), but relaying what I was told by an IA product manager last year

 

[IdahoGrenadier]

When I wasn't happy with how my dealer was handling the problem with the rear door open alarm I raised a ticket with Ineos direct.
Their response was excellent and they said all dealers would be able to see the results of the ticket and they gave me the ticket number as well.
I changed dealers and found the new dealer had not only not fixed the problem, but hadn't even read the ticket response from Ineos.

They tried to give me back the still faulty vehicle.
I had told them about the Ineos response when I booked it in but this detail never made it to the shop floor.
I refused the vehicle back and again pointed out the ticket number and what needed to be done.

They discussed this and told me they had missed that and would have to order in the parts.
I then pointed out Robert Peppers interview with Justin Hocevar, where Justin says he authorised dealers to remove parts from showroom and demo vehicles to get customers on the road.

They agreed to do it.
I went for a walk and got some lunch and a coffee.
When I returned I had a vehicle with no faults and alarms, along with the display software update.

The vehicle has just been a complete pleasure to drive, park, lock etc etc since that time.

I raised the issue directly with IA. They kicked me back and forth a few times collecting information, then said something like "let us know if there's anything else you need from us". I asked if that meant they weren't going to do anything about my issue and they said it was normal.

I think my dealer is doing a reasonably job in this. I followed up with them and asked them to open a ticket. After their pushback, IA authorized them to do some work but we're waiting on parts. Given how many people are experiencing this noise, though, I'm not super hopeful that this is going to do much.

Still waiting on an update to make the electronics/ADAS usable...

 

[DaveB]

I raised the issue directly with IA. They kicked me back and forth a few times collecting information, then said something like "let us know if there's anything else you need from us". I asked if that meant they weren't going to do anything about my issue and they said it was normal.

I think my dealer is doing a reasonably job in this. I followed up with them and asked them to open a ticket. After their pushback, IA authorized them to do some work but we're waiting on parts. Given how many people are experiencing this noise, though, I'm not super hopeful that this is going to do much.

Still waiting on an update to make the electronics/ADAS usable...

A little bit different here I guess as the dealer doesn't own the demo or showroom vehicles.
These are all still owned by Ineos.

 

[IdahoGrenadier]

Never owned a LR (or any other British vehicle), but relaying what I was told by an IA product manager last year

That's exactly my concern. I've been a Toyota guy instead of an LR guy in large part because of reliability. The response of IA to this issue makes me realize that their culture is very LR, with the idea that getting 90% of the way there is good enough. Hence the thread.

As someone who is very attracted to the vehicle and the initiative, I'm concerned this culture isn't going to do well in the US. There's so much excitement around the look and configuration of the vehicle, but anyone who hears it running is immediately turned off. We all want to criticize the new Defender for being too complicated, but at least its power steering system doesn't sound like it's dying.

 

[dreamalaska]

PSA:
I see that the power steering reservoir cap shows the required fluid as being “CHF”. CHF is a very specific hydraulic system fluid.

Many BMW, Mercedes and Audi/VW owners try and use generic power steering or auto transmission fluid to top off or refresh during scheduled PS oil changes, but BMW has specifically warned that use of any fluid that does not meet their spec (BMW 81 22 9 407 758, which is CHF11S) can destroy their PS pump and steering rack seals over time.
I don’t know if the Grenadier steering system and specifically the Bosch pump require CHF to not leak over time, but it’s probably not a good idea to test your luck since you can get CHF readily through any NAPA or online store.

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/AICCHF11S

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/AICLM20038

https://pim.liqui-moly.de/pdf/en_GB/liqui/59/P000384

https://www.ecstuning.com/Search/SiteSearch/Chf_fluid/