Front diff failure

JafUK · Apr 17, 2024

Just wondered if anyone else has experienced this...

My Trialmaster has done ~4500 miles with no offroading, except for a centre diff usage in the snow for short periods. I was driving on the road turning left around 30mph to find my front diff went with a bang and now grinding on deceleration. My local agent has confirmed the diff has failed and possibly due to it not having enough or any oil in it. New diff on order

Very disappointed to find this bulletproof vehicle failed on a part that wasn't under heavy use.

Tom D · Apr 17, 2024

It wouldn't matter how bulletproof the diff was if it had no oil in it! Was it whiny before it went?

bbq4133 · Apr 17, 2024

Any noises before? No oil should be a fairly audible problem.

JafUK · Apr 17, 2024

bbq4133 said:
Any noises before? No oil should be a fairly audible problem.

They're only speculating. No noises prior to it failing

Tom D · Apr 17, 2024

Have you still got the car? I’d be tempted to pull the drain plug and see if there’s some metal in there. Those axles are pretty reliable, king pin bushes going is way more common than a diff failure on the tractors that they supply. I’d say it’s a freak manufacturing fault. Ask the dealer for some shots of the diff when they open it up. I’d love to see what happened.

JafUK · Apr 17, 2024

Tom D said:
Have you still got the car? I’d be tempted to pull the drain plug and see if there’s some metal in there. Those axles are pretty reliable, king pin bushes going is way more common than a diff failure on the tractors that they supply. I’d say it’s a freak manufacturing fault. Ask the dealer for some shots of the diff when they open it up. I’d love to see what happened.

It's in the workshop now. I'll keep you posted on its outcome

AWo · Apr 18, 2024

That must not be an oil problem, especially if no one looked if there's oil in or not. It could also be that one or more bolts got loose or a bearing dismantled itself. If the case is still fine and the diff makes a noise, be careful while driving (I would not drive anymore in that case), as parts can block and then the case can break.

AWo

Mountain4x4 · Apr 19, 2024

Its low on oil because they were likely supposed to fill it at the dealership. When shipping cars they can come with less fluids for safety in case of fire on a ship or something. But regardless, checking fluid levels would have been on the check list for the dealer. And they will run for awhile on low oil....until they don't, I highly doubt the diff just failed. Its possible something was set up wrong, but I bet it was knuckleheads not filling the oil.

JafUK · May 1, 2024

Latest update is the diff has the right amount of oil but the oil looks like glitter i.e. many metal parts grinding.

Agent has ordered a replacement axle due to it causing damage of the diff and other possible areas like the half shafts.

Problem is Ineos in dragging their heels sending the part. So much for their marketing spiel talking about shipping parts around the world in 24hrs. On near the end of week 3 without the car. Very disappointed experience so far with the support I'm recieving

Tom D · May 1, 2024

Parts supply does seem to be an issue. I went in the other day with a fau;ty battery. They didn’t have one in stock and haven’t let me know as yet that a replacement has arrived. You’d think a battery would be an off the shelf part.

ECrider · May 1, 2024

Just Hoecvar of Ineos aspac was on Robert Pepper's youtube saying something along the lines of "...and if there's no part available then in the worse case we have a couple of cars we can raid for parts not in Oz"

not verbatim

wonder if such athing exists here in UK

JafUK · May 1, 2024

I wouldn't mind if I was the early bird customer. They're nearly 2 years in and still a sh*t show of an operation

dreamalaska · May 1, 2024

When the front diff failed were you running it locked or unlocked?

JafUK · May 1, 2024

dreamalaska said:
When the front diff failed were you running it locked or unlocked?

Just driving around 20mph on road (no lock) as soon as I steered left at the island and continued the acceleration something went bang

Jackattack13 · May 1, 2024

Tom D said:
Parts supply does seem to be an issue. I went in the other day with a fau;ty battery. They didn’t have one in stock and haven’t let me know as yet that a replacement has arrived. You’d think a battery would be an off the shelf part.

I am starting the think they have no warehouse of spares. I have been waiting on a new seat back for almost 2 months. And it took 2 weeks to get a module. A battery? That should be at every service center.

Logsplitter · May 1, 2024

Jackattack13 said:
I am starting the think they have no warehouse of spares. I have been waiting on a new seat back for almost 2 months. And it took 2 weeks to get a module. A battery? That should be at every service center.

I got a new Bowden cable for the transfer box shipped from the stores in Belgium to Botswana in about 10days but the delays weren’t in the shipping it was the customs first in South Africa and then in Botswana .
To fix my auxillary radiator mounting brackets in Windhoek they stripped parts from a showroom model. So maybe I got lucky.

AWo · May 1, 2024

Logsplitter said:
I got a new Bowden cable for the transfer box shipped from the stores in Belgium to Botswana in about 10days but the delays weren’t in the shipping it was the customs first in South Africa and then in Botswana .
To fix my auxillary radiator mounting brackets in Windhoek they stripped parts from a showroom model. So maybe I got lucky.

I assume, you were important as many people watched your journey and IA itself used it for promotion.

Bying stock spare parts costs money and I assume that is very tight at the moment. All incomes are needed to keep the thing running, to get new sales and to write new invoices.

Don't forget, sales numbers have decreased early in 2023 and still decrease, yet, while IA intended to double the number of build cars in 2024 compared to 2023. That would mean about 60,000 units where in 2023 the intended numbers were missed clearly. Is 60,000 units a realistic number? Ask yourself. How should that work? And how do suppliers react, which also can see the numbers and now the market and which may need to pre-finance if they are asked for parts for 60,000 units? In a niche market where Mercedes made a party when they sold 25,000 units of the G Wagon globally in one year (2016) for the first time. And the current model claimed up to 40,000+. Where should all the buyers come from for Ineos? Independent of if it is a good car or not They're not the only ones which offer and sell cars of that kind but they can't sell an alternative, yet. Every potential customer who doesn't want a 4x4 of that kind or price is a lost customer for IA. In addition a new car is developed at IA which eats up a lot of Euros.

I.m.h.o. opening new markets like South America is a must and a flee forward for IA.

AWo

NQ94 · May 1, 2024

pjefferies said:
Latest update is the diff has the right amount of oil but the oil looks like glitter i.e. many metal parts grinding.

Agent has ordered a replacement axle due to it causing damage of the diff and other possible areas like the half shafts.

Problem is Ineos in dragging their heels sending the part. So much for their marketing spiel talking about shipping parts around the world in 24hrs. On near the end of week 3 without the car. Very disappointed experience so far with the support I'm recieving

Replacing the whole axle assembly was common with similar Carraro axles in Iveco Daily 4x4 when there was a failure even when the vehicle was out of warranty. Complete assemblies may be easier and quicker to get and change than individual parts and there is a high probability the workshops and the diff shops do not have have the specific Carraro tooling to factory install and set the differential. From experience and talking with some Iveco daily 4x4 fleet owners and operators, receiving some of the parts for Carraro axles, both tractor and light truck, can be a tediously slow process in Australia I expected Carraro parts lead times to be better in Europe.

MarkgreSC · May 7, 2024

Was under the truck yesterday and my front diff is "seeping" at the yoke seal at leading side of front prop shaft. There was enough to form drips that I had to wipe off. Anyone else have that going on? Hard to see in the pic, but concerning with only 3k miles. I'm assuming that the driveline vibration at 2000 rpm is beginning to take out that seal. Don't know how the design got through all that testing without caring about the known vibration at 2000 rpm anytime under load. I live in the mountains and every time I go somewhere, seems like it's at that rpm. LOL

Tinerfeño · May 7, 2024

Check the axle breather. Land Rover has used stupid valve (from D3) and when it get bloked leak starts. Repair is easy, cut off the valve,

Pinion shaft has solid taper roller bearings and won't vibrate.

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Front diff failure

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