(The battery and monitor thread )Car dead in the middle of the woods

das mo · Jul 23, 2023

Hi all.

Car is dead.

Battery was at 50% 2 hours back.
We now packed all together and car does not start.

Is there an Ineos support hotline I can call on a Sunday?

Thanks

Tomdoc · Aug 19, 2023

I'm not denying the figure - but I am suspicious of the readouts we are getting. I get the same type of numbers with just the ignition on. I think someone needs to get a good clamp meter onto the main cable and check if these figures are correct. Sadly - I don't have one!

Jean Mercier · Aug 19, 2023

Tomdoc said:
... the ignition on...

That's the word I should have used @Miki

Miki · Aug 19, 2023

Jean Mercier said:
That's the word I should have used @Miki

Yes, sorry for my not understanding foreign English .....

(that's a joke BTW)

Miki · Aug 19, 2023

8A is possible with the ignition on as there are DRL's and loads of sensors and engine management computers, bluetooth and data bus decoders, info screens, relays coils and alternators being excited etc ...
Hopefully/normally not for long though as the usual practise is to start the car.

A good quality clamp meter (as suggested by @Tomdoc ) is the answer.

There are a number of folk with independant battery monitors installed now, these should be able to give us more info ??

Jean Mercier · Aug 19, 2023

Tomdoc said:
I'm not denying the figure - but I am suspicious of the readouts we are getting. I get the same type of numbers with just the ignition on. I think someone needs to get a good clamp meter onto the main cable and check if these figures are correct. Sadly - I don't have one!

I don't have clamp either, perhaps I should buy.

But I am not as suspicious as you about the measuring accuracy. Only this lightbar I have (1m long, LEDs at both sides) takes 0.8A at 12V.
And the car has quite a lot of electronics in it, and I see while posting that @Miki has the same opinion, if I understand his English

[EDITED: he is Scottish, that's a possible cause

]

Lollo050968 · Aug 19, 2023

I have the CTEK MX 5.0, used it still for the Grenadier. BUT I asked Moll batteries, they told me to us a one with min. 10A, otherwise you will reduce the max cycle of the batteries. For the this reason I will jump to a Victron with 15 A.
At the moment I am a weekend Camping and after 1,5day the starter is down to 66% and backup to 84%. Curious if tomorrow the car will start… I have the charger in stand by and 230v/50hz near to the car….

Jean Mercier · Aug 19, 2023

Miki said:
There are a number of folk with independant battery monitors installed now, these should be able to give us more info ??

Bought some too, should arrive next week from

Miki · Aug 19, 2023

Jean Mercier said:
And the car has quite a lot of electronics in it, and I see while posting that @Miki has the same opinion, if I understand his English [EDITED: he is Scottish, that's a possible cause ]

Aye, Ken.
Lang mae yer lum reek, ya wee bas.

ps.
I'm actually English

das mo · Aug 19, 2023

It is scary how different our cars behave on that matter.
Some report starter battery charging first, only then the second one. Mine load exactly same time and almost always match in terms of voltage.
Some lose almost no charge whilst parking. I can not have the car sitting here for more than 3 days without dropping before 12V. And that is in summer.

DCPU · Aug 19, 2023

Lollo050968 said:
I have the CTEK MX 5.0, used it still for the Grenadier. BUT I asked Moll batteries, they told me to us a one with min. 10A, otherwise you will reduce the max cycle of the batteries. For the this reason I will jump to a Victron with 15 A.

Genuine question:

I'm struggling to find all the tech detail, but isn't it only using a max current of 15A during the bulk phase which takes the battery to 80%? Thereafter, it throttles back the current during the absorption phase.

If all you're wanting it something that keeps the vehicle in the absorption/float range, isn't a 15A charger overkill?

DCPU · Aug 19, 2023

das mo said:
It is scary how different our cars behave on that matter.
Some report starter battery charging first, only then the second one. Mine load exactly same time and almost always match in terms of voltage.
Some lose almost no charge whilst parking. I can not have the car sitting here for more than 3 days without dropping before 12V. And that is in summer.

I wonder how much depends upon the actual health of your batteries?

In normal times, a just in time delivery from Moll of a recently manufactured battery, vehicle built, shipped and delivered to owner within a month.

Batteries may have been sat on a shelf in Hambach for weeks/months before vehicle built, then started up and moved multiple times around the factory during batch and hold and remedial work. Some run like this for nearly 6 months before getting delivered.

I wonder what toll that has taken on the batteries?

May a load test or a more sophisticated health check would give a range of results across the current owner fleet.

If you have smart charger maybe a cycle through the recondition mode might restore capacity or ability to take/hold charge?

AnD3rew · Aug 19, 2023

DCPU said:
I wonder how much depends upon the actual health of your batteries?

In normal times, a just in time delivery from Moll of a recently manufactured battery, vehicle built, shipped and delivered to owner within a month.

Batteries may have been sat on a shelf in Hambach for weeks/months before vehicle built, then started up and moved multiple times around the factory during batch and hold and remedial work. Some run like this for nearly 6 months before getting delivered.

I wonder what toll that has taken on the batteries?

May a load test or a more sophisticated health check would give a range of results across the current owner fleet.

If you have smart charger maybe a cycle through the recondition mode might restore capacity or ability to take/hold charge?

I am worried about this. I had a new BMW’s battery die within a few weeks of delivery for precisely this reason. As far as I can tell my Grenadier has spent about 7 months sitting in holding yards and on a ship since it was built. Baser on others experences of parasitic current loss in relatively short periods, you would have to assume these batteries have been completely drained at some points unless they have had maintenance chargers attached, but from the apparent volume of vehicles sitting around it is hard to imagine they had chargers sitting on all of them.

MarkH · Aug 19, 2023

Yes as soon as you turn the key to 'Access.' or 'On' without your foot on the brake the voltage will drop due to pre-start loads, and the radio if it's on. Hop out and see if you can hear the fuel pump priming at the 'On' position.
Check what the voltage returns to after removing the key - 1st open the bonnet and let the vehicle rest until the infotainment screen times out, then wait 5 mins and check the voltage again via the engine bay terminals.

Miki · Aug 20, 2023

DCPU said:
Genuine question:

I'm struggling to find all the tech detail, but isn't it only using a max current of 15A during the bulk phase which takes the battery to 80%? Thereafter, it throttles back the current during the absorption phase.

If all you're wanting it something that keeps the vehicle in the absorption/float range, isn't a 15A charger overkill?

Yes and Yes.

Miki · Aug 20, 2023

Could the high current draw on 'contact' be due to the heated windscreen wash warming up ?
Is this being warmed all the time ?

Lollo050968 · Aug 20, 2023

So see enclosed, 2 1/2 day camping with various consumer. Today when we start, battery was down to 52 % , no problem to start the engine. With 90km moderate Motorway 90-120 km/h , both batteries back on 100%.
Alternator charge at the beginning with 52A, later with moderate 6-8A.

DCPU · Aug 20, 2023

Lollo050968 said:
I have the CTEK MX 5.0, used it still for the Grenadier. BUT I asked Moll batteries, they told me to us a one with min. 10A, otherwise you will reduce the max cycle of the batteries. For the this reason I will jump to a Victron with 15 A.
At the moment I am a weekend Camping and after 1,5day the starter is down to 66% and backup to 84%. Curious if tomorrow the car will start… I have the charger in stand by and 230v/50hz near to the car….

Not so such down a rabbit hole but more a whole Warren today... this chap does some excellent videos ~ if excellent is an hour and 20 mins watching someone repairing a CTEK charger

https://youtube.com/@razenby

Stuff like this is food for thought:

emax · Aug 21, 2023

Lollo050968 said:
So see enclosed, 2 1/2 day camping with various consumer. Today when we start, battery was down to 52 % , no problem to start the engine. With 90km moderate Motorway 90-120 km/h , both batteries back on 100%.
Alternator charge at the beginning with 52A, later with moderate 6-8A.View attachment 7824130 View attachment 7824131

These numbers (67%@12.4V are completely nuts if compared with what I had recorded before from your postings. Look at the orange curve, this is yours.

Lollo050968 · Aug 21, 2023

emax said:
These numbers (67%@12.4V are completely nuts if compared with what I had recorded before from your postings. Look at the orange curve, this is yours.

View attachment 7824304

It is, what is recorded. And 67% at the backup, the monitor of ineos showed a few percent more than my monitor on the starter, but voltage was equal, and my box for usb have a voltage display too, was exact the same of Ineos.
I will send you later the whole three days as export file for Excel, by PN

emax · Aug 21, 2023

Thank you, I'm really curious.

I didn't of course mean that you are nuts. It's the numbers and thus maybe the recording. But I might have got something wrong when I collected the numbers from the pictures.

I'll see when I have the data.

Search

Search

(The battery and monitor thread )Car dead in the middle of the woods

das mo

Tomdoc

Jean Mercier

GG#920

Miki

Miki

Jean Mercier

GG#920

Lollo050968

Jean Mercier

GG#920

Miki

das mo

DCPU

DCPU

AnD3rew

Inch deep and a mile wide.

MarkH

Miki

Miki

Lollo050968

DCPU

emax

Photo Contest Winner

Lollo050968

emax

Photo Contest Winner

Similar threads

Latest posts

Share this page