Auxiliary battery type

bigleonski · Dec 4, 2022

OK, so I know electrics threads can become warzones and I don’t want that, and I’m a self confessed numpty when it comes to this stuff. But how will a standard starting battery (assuming that’s what this is) handle the charge/ discharge/ charge / discharge life of a aux battery used for running a fridge etc etc that (pre lithium) we would always go to a deep cycle battery?
I’m not seeing their aux battery option (a non delete in the trialmaster) as being something I’d run with.

DaveB · Dec 4, 2022

bigleonski said:
OK, so I know electrics threads can become warzones and I don’t want that, and I’m a self confessed numpty when it comes to this stuff. But how will a standard starting battery (assuming that’s what this is) handle the charge/ discharge/ charge / discharge life of a aux battery used for running a fridge etc etc that (pre lithium) we would always go to a deep cycle battery?
I’m not seeing their aux battery option (a non delete in the trialmaster) as being something I’d run with.

I see it as a spare part, if the main battery dies for some reason there is an identical spare sitting there ready to go.

bigleonski · Dec 4, 2022

DaveB said:
I see it as a spare part, if the main battery dies for some reason there is an identical spare sitting there ready to go.

Then it is a waste of a purchase and not “built for purpose” to put an Ineos spin on it.

Mr. Largo WINCH · Dec 4, 2022

MOL 81105 AGM

Tazzieman · Dec 4, 2022

Out of interest , what sorts of factory dual battery options do other 4x4 mfrs offer?

bigleonski · Dec 4, 2022

Tazzieman said:
Out of interest , what sorts of factory dual battery options do other 4x4 mfrs offer?

I’m not sure of any. The 200 had dual starters (both starters) so it was easy to upsize the main starter in that and drop an isolated deep cycle in the spot. Works a treat.

So top marks for Ineos to do this, I’m just trying to get my head around the reason for the configuration. And I’d prefer not to spend the money on a factory set up only to change it on day one. As it is, because I can’t delete it I’ll probably have to swap it out to set up a 200 Lifepo4 anyway. In a perfect world you’d get options I suppose.

Logsplitter · Dec 4, 2022

I’ve no experience of EFB batteries only dual purpose agm. A quick google search and it seems EFB batteries are designed for high load situations inc start stop vehIcles and vehicles with high consumer loads ie. Fridge, winch ,inverter etc. I guess Ineos have done a lot of research into this and it seems a sensible decision to have two matching batteries. As the two are linkable so the auxiliary battery can help start the engine. From what I can gather lithium batteries are not suitable for stop/start systems.

MOLL-Batterien – Batterien – PKW – MOLL start|stop EFB

MOLL-Batterien - der Auto-Batterien-Spezialist. PKW-Batterien, LKW-Batterien, Motorrad-Batterien, AGM-Batterien, Batterien mit Doppeldeckel, Batterien für Boote und Wohmobile, Solar-Batterien, Batterien für Nutzfahrzeuge. Premium-Qualität Made in Germany.

www.moll-batterien.de

Logsplitter · Dec 4, 2022

this link has a good explanation of EFB technology batteries.
From my own experience , although AGM batteries are very good they really don’t tolerate too many deep discharges. So maybe these new type of EFB batteries are a safer bet.

WhiteBear · Dec 4, 2022

Is it really a Moll EFB battery or their AFB type? There is no 105 Ah EFB battery in their portfolio, only a 106 Ah AFB which also is the more elaborate type.
“EFB battery – for compact and mid-range cars with start-stop. The EFB battery is a further development of the classic lead-acid battery. Thanks to a poly fleece material on the surface of the positive plate, the EFB guarantees a longer service life.“ says Varta

Logsplitter · Dec 4, 2022

yes I saw that there was no 105ah battery in their brochure. A previous post has stated that Ineos had confirmed a Moll 105ah EFB would be used. I’m basing my posts and research on that. Happy to be corrected with up to date information on battery type.

Logsplitter · Dec 4, 2022

Ok I stand corrected. Moll 81105 AGM battery seems to be the consensus.

TD5-90 · Dec 4, 2022

Logsplitter said:
I’ve no experience of EFB batteries only dual purpose agm. A quick google search and it seems EFB batteries are designed for high load situations inc start stop vehIcles and vehicles with high consumer loads ie. Fridge, winch ,inverter etc. I guess Ineos have done a lot of research into this and it seems a sensible decision to have two matching batteries. As the two are linkable so the auxiliary battery can help start the engine. From what I can gather lithium batteries are not suitable for stop/start systems.

MOLL-Batterien – Batterien – PKW – MOLL start|stop EFB

MOLL-Batterien - der Auto-Batterien-Spezialist. PKW-Batterien, LKW-Batterien, Motorrad-Batterien, AGM-Batterien, Batterien mit Doppeldeckel, Batterien für Boote und Wohmobile, Solar-Batterien, Batterien für Nutzfahrzeuge. Premium-Qualität Made in Germany.

www.moll-batterien.de

Full ACK. To me the system (including the Smartpass 120s) makes sense.

AFAIU EFB is the "cheapish" version of AGM, mechanically less stable but more temperature tolerant (can be mounted in engine compartment, which is not generally the case with AGM). One could eventually argue that INEOS rather should have selected AGM for their better vibration tolerance, since the temperature under the rear seats would be low enough. But maybe at some point even with the Gren cost is an issue...

As far as I further understand: Complementing the Smartpass 120s with the CTEK D250SE will enable a Li-type aux-battery plus solar charging. So, what you pay for the "2nd battery" option is well invested: CTEK 120s, wiring, and a reasonably cycle-tolerant battery. The deal to go with for me. And yes: At some later point I will upgrade to Li-aux.

Logsplitter · Dec 4, 2022

maybe I got it wrong. Some are saying that the batteries are moll 81105 AGM

TD5-90 · Dec 4, 2022

Logsplitter said:
maybe I got it wrong. Some are saying that the batteries are moll 81105 AGM

If this is the case: Perfect!

DCPU · Dec 4, 2022

I'd like them to be, but wasn't that hare set coursing some time ago by just two facts ~ Moll was the named manufacturer and 105Ah was the capacity. Someone then looked up Moll's aftermarket offerings and landed on an AGM battery that was the first to align with these two facts.

Has anyone seen an AGM battery installed in a Grenadier?

Logsplitter · Dec 4, 2022

I’ll go with the pictures as in the “ working in the engine bay thread “. I was basing my posts firstly on those pictures of EFB batteries then others were saying AGM So I deferred. I’ll stay quiet now until I see a finished product

DaveB · Dec 4, 2022

bigleonski said:
Then it is a waste of a purchase and not “built for purpose” to put an Ineos spin on it.

Then don't order it.
Everything is an option

DenisM · Dec 4, 2022

Logsplitter said:
I’ll go with the pictures as in the “ working in the engine bay thread “. I was basing my posts firstly on those pictures of EFB batteries then others were saying AGM So I deferred. I’ll stay quiet now until I see a finished product

*"Battery Types".... Another entry on my check list for the drive day in a couple of weeks unless someone is able to confirm one way or the other prior...

It occurs to me that a potential 450-500 Amp draw from either the front or rear heavy duty sockets would require two batteries of comparable capacity and charging characteristics to share the load for reasonable life-cycle longevity... for example, some of these Grenadiers may be put to work in a forestry or farming situation where the winch is in constant use with the engine idling away at 1500-2000rpm to maintain an adequate charge from the alternator.... I'm certain some vehicles will be "thrashed"

Logsplitter · Dec 4, 2022

DCPU said:
I'd like them to be, but wasn't that hare set coursing some time ago by just two facts ~ Moll was the named manufacturer and 105Ah was the capacity. Someone then looked up Moll's aftermarket offerings and landed on an AGM battery that was the first to align with these two facts.

Has anyone seen an AGM battery installed in a Grenadier?

Agreed.

bigleonski · Dec 4, 2022

DaveB said:
Then don't order it.
Everything is an option

Unless it's standard on the Trialmaster and you want that.

No doubt everything will come to light in the fullness of time.

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