Auxiliary battery type

[DenisM]

If one were to change the second battery (AGM) for a Lithium battery in due course, then I'm uncertain as to whether the existing charging setup would be appropriate given that the Li battery requires a different charging profile... it's another reason why I'm holding off until I can get some more detailed info.

 

[Igfan]

Check out amptron (https://www.amptron.com.au/about.html) they do lithium batteries which they claim are drop in replacements for agm. They call them “alternative replacements”. Presumably the internal battery circuitry takes care of any differences. They are crazy expensive though!

 

[emax]

> change the second battery (AGM) for a Lithium battery in due course

This may take a couple of years. A two-battery setup may be good  for  eight,  nine or ten years. At least if they share the load to start the engine.

 

[CountyV8]

[QUOTE username=emax userid=8900646 postid=1332877518]> change the second battery (AGM) for a Lithium battery in due course

This may take a couple of years. A two-battery setup may be good  for  eight,  nine or ten years. At least if they share the load to start the engine.[/QUOTE]

And keep them topped up with a CTeK or similar .

 

[Sandman]

I have had confirmation from Ineos that the Aux battery is a  Moll 105AH EFB which is the same as the main battery, and is controlled by CTek unit.
And the alternator will have an output of 250Amps

 

[Mitchell300]

Thanks to all above for the comments, I’ve added the auxiliary battery to my order.

 

[mkennedy009]

This is interesting short read:
https://www.rbbattery.com/efb-battery-guide-everything-you-need-to-know-about-efb-technology/

I lookup CTek and I hope we get the 120s
12V: WET, EFB, Ca/Ca, MF, AGM, GEL, LiFePO4
it costs $15 more than the 120

The 120 only does:
All types of 12V lead-acid batteries (WET, EFB, Ca/Ca, MF, AGM, and GEL)

 

[emax]

> the alternator will have an output of 250Amps

That's 3 KW (!). Very nice.

 

[bnebenda]

[QUOTE username=Sandman userid=8987369 postid=1333019485]I have had confirmation from Ineos that the Aux battery is a  Moll 105AH EFB which is the same as the main battery, and is controlled by CTek unit.
And the alternator will have an output of 250Amps[/QUOTE]

definitely the alternator will NOT have 250 A because that would be 230V * 250A = 57.5 kW. Probably that‘s the input current 12V • 250A = 3kW, how much power that is on the output depends on the efficiency (80% maybe) then it would be 2.4 kW. But at 250A the voltage of the battery and the voltage drop on the leads will reduce the input voltage from 12V to maybe only 10V, hence 2.5 kW * 0.8 = 2 kW which is closer to the 2.1 kW I had written before. 

 

[Sandman]

[QUOTE username=bnebenda userid=9011822 postid=1333048385]

definitely the alternator will NOT have 250 A because that would be 230V * 250A = 57.5 kW. . [/QUOTE]

No one mention anything about 230V.  It will be a 12 V 250 A Output = 3Kw. The input will be the BMW motor spinning the Alternator.
 

 

[Davman]

I wonder if they install a larger Alternator for systems ordered with a second battery, or it they just have the one standard.

 

[DaveB]

[QUOTE username=emax userid=8900646 postid=1332871583]Why B2B? I don't think this makes a difference.

...

This is the type of work I really like to do my self. But in that case, I have decided to let this at Ineos. It's a fat power setup, and mistakes (frayed cables due to vibrations, dysfunctional safety power-down, an insufficient heat-monitoring and the like) can get expensive.

And the thickness of the cables indeed calls for somebody who is used to handle such installations. I have some doubts to be the right one for this.[/QUOTE] It is good to acknowledge ones limitations. Also Lithium batteries are known to catch fire if not properly installed and ventilated. 

 

[Sandman]

[QUOTE username=Davman userid=8961117 postid=1333048610]I wonder if they install a larger Alternator for systems ordered with a second battery, or it they just have the one standard.[/QUOTE]

Good question. They only told me about the 250A output one so I only assumed that was standard. But I did ask about Aux battery, so if it is different, then maybe they only mention what comes  with that package.

 

[DenisM]

Using ISO and SAE J standards, alternator specs have two outputs...  one at idle which corresponds to alternator pulley speed 1500rpm and one at max pulley rpm which for the relevant standards is defined as 6000rpm. The output voltage varies but to charge a battery is normally around 13.5V though some can go close to 14. At 13.5V the max output is 3.375KW. Given the correct diameter of charging leads over a relatively short distance, the voltage drop is minimal (

 

[DaveB]

[QUOTE username=emax userid=8900646 postid=1332873174]> then it’s actually a fair price

Considering the installation and the necessary installation material (which is for that power not cheap) that was pretty much a bargain.

I ordered the second battery in the assumption that there is no inverter included, and was not happy about the price.  But I accepted it finally because of the wiring, the installation and included charge management.  It it had a converter as well, this would now be kind of a gift to me.

> Makes me now wonder what the High load aux panel and electrical prep entail to charge £1000+

A flux compensator may be ... ?[/QUOTE]agreed

 

[DaveB]

[QUOTE username=Sandman userid=8987369 postid=1333048581]

No one mention anything about 230V.  It will be a 12 V 250 A Output = 3Kw. The input will be the BMW motor spinning the Alternator.
 [/QUOTE]Wikipedia lists the following for the B57 engine 
48-volt BMW Genuine Crankshaft Starter Generator

 

[Sandman]

[QUOTE username=DaveB userid=8923052 postid=1333048840]Wikipedia lists the following for the B57 engine 
48-volt BMW Genuine Crankshaft Starter Generator[/QUOTE]

I did see that but I'm thinking that is for hybrid set ups. 

 

[Sandman]

[QUOTE username=DCPU userid=9044333 postid=1333121420]

On the boards at the launch of the US HQ:

 [/QUOTE]

There is more information on that board then there is in the brochure.

 

[DCPU]

There are three line items in the Power setup per the price brochure

1. Auxiliary Charge Points
2. High Load Auxiliary Switch Panel & Electrical Preparation
3. Auxiliary Battery

I was under the assumption that the Electrical preparation would include all the wiring, solenoid/ dc-dc charger etc. and the aux battery price was only the price of the battery. If the aux battery price includes the charging, potentially the 2k inverter and the fat 0/1 awg cabling then itâs actually a fair price; £570. Makes me now wonder what the High load aux panel and electrical prep entail to charge £1000+
Well weâll see when we get some delivered vehicles

The auxiliary battery option is rather cryptic in what is included as "the ability to run items...withoutvdrawing on the vehicle's primary battery"

 

[Yards10]

This is what was emailed to me by Ineos and no inverter at this stage.

First point of note the auxiliary battery is identical to the main battery per details below:

Main Battery

The battery that powers the Grenadier is a 105Ah EFB Moll battery.
It works as a traditional 12 Volt system with an alternator charging the battery when required.
The Auxiliary battery that is used when optioned is identical to the main vehicle battery and will be wired in parallel to insure that it stays a 12 volt circuit.

EFB - Enhanced Flooded Battery. These batteries are sealed and are not able to be opened to test cells



Additional information on the Aux Battery:

The Grenadier has the option for an auxiliary battery to be fitted. It is located under the rear second row seating (opposite side to the standard battery). A C-TECH charger is used to charge the additional battery along with isolate the standard battery when engine is not on. Can assist with starting vehicle if main battery is low.

The main use for the auxiliary batteries is for use of additional electric equipment powered from the vehicle without diminishing the main battery when engine is not running.

Specification: 105Ah Lead acid 12V

 

[bigleonski]

OK, so I know electrics threads can become warzones and I don’t want that, and I’m a self confessed numpty when it comes to this stuff. But how will a standard starting battery (assuming that’s what this is) handle the charge/ discharge/ charge / discharge life of a aux battery used for running a fridge etc etc that (pre lithium) we would always go to a deep cycle battery?
I’m not seeing their aux battery option (a non delete in the trialmaster) as being something I’d run with.