Americas The big May 17 Announcement / Pricing / Discussion thread.

[Aurans]

G-wagon at $150K+ is sold out until 2025. I don't think IG will have any problem filling orders:

Even hotcakes don't sell this fast - Mercedes-Benz has stopped taking orders for the $150,000 G-Class SUV as every single unit is sold out till 2025. - Luxurylaunches

luxurylaunches.com

Grenadier is not in the same class as the discovery and Land Rover is deploying chips, etc. to Defender and Range Rover builds. There are still long waits to build and buy.

Not true for the Disco. They can’t sell them; there are 122 sitting on lots within 100 miles of me. As for the G, to call back the watch analogy, IG like a new watch brand going up against Rolex. At the moment, there’s no market comparison between the two. I think IG will have a bullish Year One, may Two and Three. After the novelty wears off and everyone who wants one has one…

 

[Zimm]

In Australia a common 4wd trip will include a long drive over corrugations
This will test any vehicle (including Toyotas)
There is no way you would do it in a Jeep without significant modifications or with any faith that it won't fall apart
I am a lot more confident that the Grenadiers suspension and components will stand up to it.
We shall have to wait and see.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTE4On69kXQ

I would NEVER purchase a live front axle over IFS for corrugations. I'm not saying an older patrol or the 7x landcruisers cant handle it, it's just sooooo much easier on the bits to not have to control all the unsprung weight, and control is soooo much better with much less driver fatigue. ifs and corrugations are like peanut butter and chocolate.

 

[Zimm]

The overall release price notwithstanding, one of the things that concerns me is the unknowns on what the dealers will charge. For example if I get the side steps or other such accessories that aren't factory installed then I am at the mercy of the dealer and what they want to charge.

One way to guard against this is that you don't have to sign a contract until 30-60 days before the car goes into production (per chatbot on Grenadier website). The dealers will be announced in August/September (also via chatbot) so it follows that you can agree on all of that with before you sign the contract.

So I am thinking of converting my order in this window and then deciding on the final cost before pulling the trigger. Do others agree that this logic makes sense?

Thanks...

thats good info for us wafflers if true.

 

[BD1]

Not true for the Disco. They can’t sell them; there are 122 sitting on lots within 100 miles of me. As for the G, to call back the watch analogy, IG like a new watch brand going up against Rolex. At the moment, there’s no market comparison between the two. I think IG will have a bullish Year One, may Two and Three. After the novelty wears off and everyone who wants one has one…

Great forecasting ability....what will S&P 500 be in 3 years

 

[Zimm]

I definitely concur on the G-Wagen value; the price I paid for my used G500 in ~2013 is the same price they're selling for today 10yrs later. They have not dropped a penny in value.

Its still depreciating. you make 50% more now than 10 years ago, and everything is 50% more expensive. If its the same price, the depreciation is just the same as the dollar.

 

[Norville]

I feel you. Every time I go car shopping a truck is on the short list for utility. I don't need anything as big as the F350 but the F150 can be nice. Less capable than the Gren in some ways and more useful in others.

I'm 6'2" and the safari windows make a huge difference in subjective roominess. A must have for me, although I will probably end up getting blackout tint on them.

The safari windows are unique to this vehicle and would be silly not to option them (for me). Don't get me wrong, other features are objectively "better", but every build of mine has the windows.

 

[Zimm]

I think the people who are comparing this vehicle to the less expensive competition and are claiming that value is not there, are not taking into account the cost of ownership over the life of the vehicle. It is miss leading to only compare the initial purchase price and claim the Grenadier is not worth it. When I see the chassis construction and the power train robustness of the Grenadier it gives me confidence that it will last 20-30 years of severe duty service with minimal unforeseen repair costs. If however I look at the jeeps,broncos,4runners etc I do not see that same mechanical robustness and if subjected to a severe off road use case they will only survive 5-10yrs before major repair costs start creeping in or major upgrades are required to increase their durability. There is a reason why there are a lot of aftermarket manufacturers offering upgraded axles, suspension and other structural reinforcements for jeeps and broncos. I look at it this way, if your intended use case, is to drive it like a mall crawler and trade it in within the next 5 years or less for the next new toy, then yes the Grenadier is not a value proposition for you. If however you intend to use the Grenadier 50% or more of the time off road, or keep it for 20+ years, then I think for these use cases, the Grenadier is the better value and will be cheaper than those other option in the long run. Pay now save more later.

I've owned some spendy cars, and I have NEVER seen cost of ownership go DOWN when it's been more expensive. Just the opposite. I always warn people when they want to buy a 60k 10yo G, that it doesnt know its a 60k 10 yo G. Mercedes hourly rates are 50% higher and the parts for truck match the 180,000 it costs now, not the 60,000 you just paid. Like the 32yo hottie thats now a 42y, she's aged, wanting her plasic surgery, and doesn't want to hear about your first wifes payments.

 

[painter]

nope. the piddly i saved wasnt worth the resale value kill.

Great. Can you please quantify that some more. It will really help.

1) $71,500 Base + rough pack + high load
2) $79,190 TM
Both early delivery units.

Resale value for each at 1 month and 24 months.

TIA !

 

[Zimm]

The safari windows are unique to this vehicle and would be silly not to option them (for me). Don't get me wrong, other features are objectively "better", but every build of mine has the windows.

Yea, I'm 6'4" and I noticed they increase headroom, which isn't my typical experience with skylights. All the reinforcement and trim typically puts the headliner right on my head. Considering the cost of the "option", it's defiantly one of the items chosen to pad the bottom line, but one I want none the less. Smart marketing with that one.

 

[Aurans]

Great forecasting ability....what will S&P 500 be in 3 years

Don’t know if it’s more funny that you confuse the two as being in any way similar or that you doubt that there are predictive models for new product launches. They aren’t fully accurate, but educated guesses, baring major unseen impacts, can be made.

 

[Xrford]

I've owned some spendy cars, and I have NEVER seen cost of ownership go DOWN when it's been more expensive. Just the opposite. I always warn people when they want to buy a 60k 10yo G, that it doesnt know its a 60k 10 yo G. Mercedes hourly rates are 50% higher and the parts for truck match the 180,000 it costs now, not the 60,000 you just paid. Like the 32yo hottie thats now a 42y, she's aged, wanting her plasic surgery, and doesn't want to hear about your first wifes payments.

I think that your comparison to a luxury brand is not relevant as the Grenadier is not marketing its self as a “luxury” brand and is not catering to that clientele. Also those brands are charging a premium for their embedded advance technology and the cost to maintain that advance tech. Also you are tied to that brands echo system for warranty and in many cases after warranty repairs. Ineos has said they will support third party Bosch service centres and DIY repair . Modern Mercedes has never been associated with reliability and robustness. The cost to repair something is only a concern if there is something that needs repairing. Take Lexus as an example.

 

[Zimm]

I think that your comparison to a luxury brand is not relevant as the Grenadier is not marketing its self as a “luxury” brand and is not catering to that clientele. Also those brands are charging a premium for their embedded advance technology and the cost to maintain that advance tech. Also you are tied to that brands echo system for warranty and in many cases after warranty repairs. Ineos has said they will support third party Bosch service centres and DYI repair . Modern Mercedes has never been associated with reliability and robustness. The cost to repair something is only a concern if there is something that needs repairing.

You can substitute my experience with my LC's for my G. That's just a Toyota. The drivetrain in this thing is BMW, not GMC. The cost of ownership NEVER goes down the more you spend. Once you're out of warrenty, just be prepared for 100k car service. It is what it is.

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

We say 5k to 10k like those will fly out the door. Rover only sold 1,500 Discos in all of 2022. MB sold 7,200 G’s and those are the benchmark.

I’m not surprised by the Rover number - the Disco 6 is a great vehicle but positioned/marketed as the “soccer family SUV” and in the US market, between the LR reputation for reliability and candidly the awkwardly goofy shape, it’s consistently going to be the worse option when compared to others. I love the Disco for what it can do on a paper, but its design’s relationship to exploration and off road is like a little girl who found her mom’s makeup kit. I can tell it tried, but the end result is not good.

No offence to anyone who owns a Disco 6 — I quite like them personally but I think the above applies for lots of folks.

The G-wagen didn’t sell many but I think that goes back to my other post - not a lot of folks have the budget to be shopping at that echelon, and they can pick beautiful Caddy’s, Acuras, Infinity’s, Range Rovers, and more.

The Gren will attract the same kind of buyer as the Jeep, 4-Runners, etc. — folks for whom adventure/off roading is the goal, not a luxury sports star status symbol — but it will only sell to folks in this hobby who have lots of extra cash. Given how many folks are driving around in top-spec Jeeps that then have tens of thousands of dollars worth of expensive accessories that are installed by a $140/hour 4x4 shop, I’d suspect the Ineos will have plenty of ability to hit their targets.

 

[Boston Boy]

I think the people who are comparing this vehicle to the less expensive competition and are claiming that value is not there, are not taking into account the cost of ownership over the life of the vehicle. It is miss leading to only compare the initial purchase price and claim the Grenadier is not worth it. When I see the chassis construction and the power train robustness of the Grenadier it gives me confidence that it will last 20-30 years of severe duty service with minimal unforeseen repair costs. If however I look at the jeeps,broncos,4runners etc I do not see that same mechanical robustness and if subjected to a severe off road use case they will only survive 5-10yrs before major repair costs start creeping in or major upgrades are required to increase their durability. There is a reason why there are a lot of aftermarket manufacturers offering upgraded axles, suspension and other structural reinforcements for jeeps and broncos. I look at it this way, if your intended use case, is to drive it like a mall crawler and trade it in within the next 5 years or less for the next new toy, then yes the Grenadier is not a value proposition for you. If however you intend to use the Grenadier 50% or more of the time off road, or keep it for 20+ years, then I think for these use cases, the Grenadier is the better value and will be cheaper than those other option in the long run. Pay now save more later.

Ah, except that the actual cost of ownership over the life of the vehicle needs to include that 15 and 14 mpg fuel economy ratings, especially since most vehicles do not achieve the rated milage in real life

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

The conversation about the Gren reminds me about the “boots” theory of economics.


In short, those with the extra cash can buy really good Red Wing work boots. They might cost $500 today, but they’ll last for 10 years. That’s only $50 per year.

Poor folks buy their work boots at Walmart for $100. But they only last a year. However, the $500 work boot is just too much money to spend all at once. Poor folks end up paying $1000 over ten years — twice as much as rich folks — but they can’t afford to position themselves in boots that last the decade.

The Gren is the Redwing boot. The Jeep is the Walmart boot.

 

[painter]

The conversation about the Gren reminds me about the “boots” theory of economics.


In short, those with the extra cash can buy really good Red Wing work boots. They might cost $500 today, but they’ll last for 10 years. That’s only $50 per year.

Poor folks buy their work boots at Walmart for $100. But they only last a year. However, the $500 work boot is just too much money to spend all at once. Poor folks end up paying $1000 over ten years — twice as much as rich folks — but they can’t afford to position themselves in boots that last the decade.

The Gren is the Redwing boot. The Jeep is the Walmart boot.

And then there's the Walmart car we bought new 25yo (an Escort)...that we still have...that has cost us next to nothing in repairs.

 

[jlcrain]

My build quickly blows past $80,000 US with the minimum amount of add ons. I am having a hard time justifying this price when the price for the 2024 Lexus GX (US version of the Prado) is projected to start around $59,000 US. Body on frame construction, locking differential, proven reliability, and a parts and service network everywhere. Anyone else thinking this way?

If you want central lock and the "off road package" on a GX460 (at least for the 23 model) you need to purchase the top of line luxury model, no idea why they did this, it's a great car. I just got the wife one. By the time it had the much needed lift (not saying the IG won't need one) and sliders we are in it for $80-$90k. Completely different vehicle, not solid axle, no front or rear lockers, super luxury but a solid option if you are looking for a capable onroad/offroad option. I got a 2023 instead of waiting because the 2024 is coming with the new engine that I am not sure of yet.

 

[BD1]

Don’t know if it’s more funny that you confuse the two as being in any way similar or that you doubt that there are predictive models for new product launches. They aren’t fully accurate, but educated guesses, baring major unseen impacts, can be made.

Dude - lighten up. The pricing has caused a lot of emotion vs logic and data.

You don't know the future more than anyone else and I don't thing there is any one (active) on this board who has run an auto company.

Cheers

 

[Great Basin ADV]

Time to look outside your "near me" radius. Not trying to talk you out of an IG, but since you mentioned alternatives...

'17 LC200, 62k, some goofy overland stuff, $58k

Autotrader - page unavailable

'17 LC200, 57k, $67k

Autotrader - page unavailable

'18 LC200, 64k, $64k

Autotrader - page unavailable

Many more LC200's out there....


Also, for G-Wagen's;

'04 G500, 60k, $44k

Autotrader - page unavailable

'04 G55, 52k, $55k

Autotrader - page unavailable

'04 G500, 14k, $60k

Autotrader - page unavailable

After my own heart. Sounds like we owed a similar G500 build.
You probably knew there were updated window regulators, door/seat switches were always finicky. But engine/trans/drivetrain is super solid.

Yes, I now about the updated window regulators but stupid expensive. I just keep a set of Taiwan made original design, that cost around $45ea., for all windows in the truck at all times, I can make the swap in about 30 minutes I have done it so many times, same with the door lock actuators! The control modules, they can get pricy as did the propeller shaft between the trans and transfer case and the two front axles with CV joints. I now have rebuilt the originals with OE CV joints and have them on hand. I am approaching 150K miles and will preventatively swap the rebuild in and rebuild those coming out. In the process of working with a shop I use in Sante Fe, OCD Motorcycle where Marc the owner was the shop foreman for Europa when the were the grey market importer of the Gwagen's, before MBZ brought them in beginning in 2002.Going rig an ARB compressor into the factory vacuum system that actuates the front and rear lockers. The factory vacuum system is a web of leaking connections and vacuum reservoir and low volume pump, plus hydraulic actuators to mechanically lock the axles, as the truck has gotten older the locking has become unreliable. We're going to hard line and use metal fittings everywhere, no plastic fitting and rubber vacuum hoses. It won't be cheap, by neither is fixing the current system, or a new Grenadier with lockers!

 

[Aurans]

Dude - lighten up. The pricing has caused a lot of emotion vs logic and data.

You don't know the future more than anyone else and I don't thing there is any one (active) on this board who has run an auto company.

Cheers

My original statement wasn’t about pricing. It was about sales volumes. No, I haven’t run an auto company, but I have been in sales and marketing for a little bit. My point was simply that 10k per year is a LOT of $80k+ vehicles for a new brand to sell, and all models decrease in sales after a few years, hence refreshes.

IG has a compounded problem of being a retro design that fans won’t want updated. It will likely look the same in 10 years as it does in year one. This is what makes G wagons and most motorcycles hold their value so much. With such a strong resale market (and we all assume IGs will last forever), there’s less demand for new product. To artificially maintain demand, you decrease volumes. It’s a delicate balance, ask Ford dealers these days.