Americas USA Buying Process--Beware (dealer vehicle pricing and business practices)

[Lord Ripon USA]

Good luck. I don't know how one would find this info, if it even exists, or what value it would have to anyone.

Wait times is one.

It’s the car business, and operates as such.

You can certainly see which segment it is aimed at for the United States market.
I think that earlier number I saw bandied about was, 15,000 units, and is perhaps ambitious.

There won’t be any real effort to sell the unadorned models, because as has been seen in the pick up truckMarket, you make way more on gussied up pick up trucks than you do on the plain ones.

The United States doesn’t have the “use it in lieu of a tractor” segment like other markets do.
Next model year will be going head to head with new models from every one of the big players.

 

[LC0013]

Wait times is one.

It’s the car business, and operates as such.

You can certainly see which segment it is aimed at for the United States market.
I think that earlier number I saw bandied about was, 15,000 units, and is perhaps ambitious.

There won’t be any real effort to sell the unadorned models, because as has been seen in the pick up truckMarket, you make way more on gussied up pick up trucks than you do on the plain ones.

The United States doesn’t have the “use it in lieu of a tractor” segment like other markets do.
Next model year will be going head to head with new models from every one of the big players.

Per https: https://www.motortrend.com/features/2023-ineos-grenadier-factory-development-details/

Official start of production, when vehicles that can be sold to customers are built in the factory, is scheduled for July. Operating on two shifts a day, Hambach will be able to build 32,000 Grenadiers a year. Given Ineos already has 15,000 expressions of interest for the car—the U.S. accounts for about a quarter of those—the factory's going to be busy from the get-go.

 

[Lord Ripon USA]

Per https: https://www.motortrend.com/features/2023-ineos-grenadier-factory-development-details/

Official start of production, when vehicles that can be sold to customers are built in the factory, is scheduled for July. Operating on two shifts a day, Hambach will be able to build 32,000 Grenadiers a year. Given Ineos already has 15,000 expressions of interest for the car—the U.S. accounts for about a quarter of those—the factory's going to be busy from the get-go.

That’s an old article full of puffery.
Modern Reality is different.

You would make a much better prediction just looking at the ND volume in the US, and taking a third.

 

[Roach]

Unable to find a clear answer to the below 2 questions.

1. Is the max production of IGs from the factory is capped at 25,000 MAX per year?
2. For US, are the numbers capped at 5000/year only? or could it be any number as long as they can sell.

Thanks in advance.

@JATT good question. For some reason I thought it was 35k target (not certain if that is for all of CY23 or included 22) and 10k for US. There are ways of finding out but in arrears so we don't have much data yet. Same as you, I'm interested knowing what those targets are.

 

[G-Tank]

@JATT good question. For some reason I thought it was 35k target (not certain if that is for all of CY23 or included 22) and 10k for US. There are ways of finding out but in arrears so we don't have much data yet. Same as you, I'm interested knowing what those targets are.

Earlier, there was article going around that for US the total is capped at 5000/year since it is not an efficient vehicle, or IG will have to pay fine for each car sold after 5000.
Is there any truth to it?

 

[carlg007]

Earlier, there was article going around that for US the total is capped at 5000/year since it is not an efficient vehicle, or IG will have to pay fine for each car sold after 5000.
Is there any truth to it?

If I remember correctly or given the correct information at the driving event back in April we were told that an exception to the "CAFE" requirement is sales could not exceed 5,000 vehicles.

 

[Roach]

For CAFE, I think it's more about a tax or penalty vs a limitation of how many can be imported. Not certain but that is another good question

 

[LC0013]

That’s an old article full of puffery.
Modern Reality is different.

I cannot believe one would say such things about Motor Trend Magazine!

 

[G-Tank]

If I remember correctly or given the correct information at the driving event back in April we were told that an exception to the "CAFE" requirement is sales could not exceed 5,000 vehicles.

For CAFE, I think it's more about a tax or penalty vs a limitation of how many can be imported. Not certain but that is another good question

Couldn't find anything on CAFE requirements/details for IG

 

[Bruce]

Earlier, there was article going around that for US the total is capped at 5000/year since it is not an efficient vehicle, or IG will have to pay fine for each car sold after 5000.
Is there any truth to it?

Yes. If you are a small manufacturer you don't need to meet the minimum average fleet MPG as a brand. Once Ineos releases a small electric model it will improve the efficiency average of all Ineos' for a given model year and they can import more Grenadiers. I discussed this with a rep at the Seattle off-road day and some of us talked about it in the thread for the event.

 

[BigSky]

Anybody who flips should be reprimanded for it in my personal opinion. Ineos should follow Mercedes and make buyers sign a 12 month no flip agreement like they do for all G-Class buyers in USA.

Are you a socialist? Either I own the car or I don't. If I do, then it's my property to keep or dispose of as I see fit.

 

[Mr.Espresso]

Are you a socialist? Either I own the car or I don't. If I do, then it's my property to keep or dispose of as I see fit.

If you are speculative in nature, the stock market is a better place for you to engage in such activities. Leave the cars for the enthusiasts, who will enjoy them, use them, and make memories in them!

 

[ADVAW8S]

Are you a socialist? Either I own the car or I don't. If I do, then it's my property to keep or dispose of as I see fit.

Your use of socialist is incorrect. The example of what he gave would be considered a form of protectionism. Protectionism has been a hallmark of our so called free market system.

 

[YellowLab]

Your use of socialist is incorrect. The example of what he gave would be considered a form of protectionism. Protectionism has been a hallmark of our so called free market system.

Moreover - can anyone enter into an agreement with a private corporation and call that socialism? Where is the required government control/heavy hand over the transaction - can't even call that protectionism. I think a better discussion should be 'how many angels or other spiritual beings can dance on the head of a pin, sitting on the dashboard of the your Grenadier, you were told/agreed not to sell in the first year'

 

[IG_in_AZ]

Your use of socialist is incorrect. The example of what he gave would be considered a form of protectionism. Protectionism has been a hallmark of our so called free market system.

Modern America: anything I don't like is Socialism / Communism/ Fascism.

 

[Roach]

Couldn't find anything on CAFE requirements/details for IG

I couldn't find anything either and that seems strange. I would think that NHTSA would have some documentation, certification or ???? on Ineos. I did find this cert for CARB:

New Vehicle and Engine Certification: Executive Orders for newly-certified Passenger Cars, Light-Duty Trucks, and Chassis Certified Medium-Duty Vehicles | California Air Resources Board

The New Vehicle and Engine Certification Program is responsible for the certification of new engines, vehicles, powertrains, aerodynamic devices and other new certifications. Vehicles and engines may be sold and otherwise produced in California only if approved by Executive Order (EO) after...

ww2.arb.ca.gov

 

[Gibby]

Forcing an owner to not sell their G after purchase through a signed agreement is not enforceable and manufacturer can not hold the customer or dealer liable.

 

[hustlehard285]

Forcing an owner to not sell their G after purchase through a signed agreement is not enforceable and manufacturer can not hold the customer or dealer liable.

2022 Toyota Land Cruiser Buyers Banned From Reselling It Due To Security Concerns

Land Cruiser customers in Japan are not allowed to resell the new SUV for a period of time as Toyota says it could lead to serious global security issues.

www.motor1.com

 

[YellowLab]

2022 Toyota Land Cruiser Buyers Banned From Reselling It Due To Security Concerns

Land Cruiser customers in Japan are not allowed to resell the new SUV for a period of time as Toyota says it could lead to serious global security issues.

www.motor1.com

Resale restrictions are nearly unenforceable in the US. Ferrari and others get around it by making you lease the car for X time period and then allowing you to buy it after the risk period is over. I cant think of a dealer out there that would not let you buy your car (a fish on the line) if you would not sign

 

[stratego]

Resale restrictions are nearly unenforceable in the US. Ferrari and others get around it by making you lease the car for X time period and then allowing you to buy it after the risk period is over. I cant think of a dealer out there that would not let you buy your car (a fish on the line) if you would not sign

Dealers take anti-export restrictions extremely seriously. It's something that can lead to losing your franchise.