Americas The big May 17 Announcement / Pricing / Discussion thread.

[Shaky]

Not trying to wind anyone up and I wouldn’t say this things are anywhere close to a bargain but I am not sure why some are so shocked by the price.

My Trialmaster on the road comes in at $83k and that’s the old original price with a few extras.

The new base price in the UK for the Trialmaster works out at around $86k

Surely people looked at prices already out there to give some sort of a heads up.

If I am honest if I was in the North American market, I would be looking at some of your already available models anyway. I love the look of the Tacoma TRD.

At the IA prices I would sit and wait for a while anyway and see how the market and the vehicle itself fair in real life ownership.

 

[Bruce]

I've been debating all morning. I think I'll proceed with a TM and a "carefully selected" set of options. It is about 10k over expected based on being told by Greg Clark they were trying to come in between the Wrangler and Defender on price (defender starts at $69k). The extra 10k isn't enough to make me regret a purchase, but I would look back at the 10k with regret not having gotten the Grenadier. Similar to the regrets I have every time I think back to all the Rolexes I've turned down over the years before their prices exploded.

 

[Bruce]

Not trying to wind anyone up and I wouldn’t say this things are anywhere close to a bargain but I am not sure why some are so shocked by the price.

My Trialmaster on the road comes in at $83k and that’s the old original price with a few extras.

The new base price in the UK for the Trialmaster works out at around $86k

Surely people looked at prices already out there to give some sort of a heads up.

If I am honest if I was in the North American market, I would be looking at some of your already available models anyway. I love the look of the Tacoma TRD.

At the IA prices I would sit and wait for a while anyway and see how the market and the vehicle itself fair in real life ownership.

Your prices include taxes, ours are before the government takes a cut.

 

[Shaky]

Your prices include taxes, ours are before the government takes a cut.

Ok,

So what would a Trialmaster work out to on the road, as in all taxes paid etc.

 

[STACHES]

I've been debating all morning. I think I'll proceed with a TM and a "carefully selected" set of options. It is about 10k over expected based on being told by Greg Clark they were trying to come in between the Wrangler and Defender on price (defender starts at $69k). The extra 10k isn't enough to make me regret a purchase, but I would look back at the 10k with regret not having gotten the Grenadier. Similar to the regrets I have every time I think back to all the Rolexes I've turned down over the years before their prices exploded.

4 door Defender S starts at $60k, not $69k. When I add the white roof, diff locker, and heated/cooled windsor leather interior, I end up at $68k. Would be just under $65k with the basic interior.

 

[40man]

Ok,

So what would a Trialmaster work out to on the road, as in all taxes paid etc.

Every state is different. We did look at UK prices minus VAT, and we are basically $10k usd higher before taxes here.

 

[jeremy_matrix]

4 door Defender S starts at $60k, not $69k. When I add the white roof, diff locker, and heated/cooled windsor leather interior, I end up at $68k. Would be just under $65k with the basic interior.

And how do you chalk up reliability of these two?;
-Rover having made vehicles for over 70yrs, but I still don't consider them reliable, especially a new Defender with LOTS of computer modules.
-INEOS having never made a vehicle, but using trusted/very reputable suppliers.

 

[STACHES]

And how do you chalk up reliability of these two?;
-Rover having made vehicles for over 70yrs, but I still don't consider them reliable, especially a new Defender with LOTS of computer modules.
-INEOS having never made a vehicle, but using trusted/very reputable suppliers.

I don't trust either honestly. Computers don't scare me, just requires a different set of tools. The warranties are similar, but with LR you get roadside assistance and a much larger dealer network. I've always done my own work, and I'm not hard on my cars, so I'm not too worried about reliability issues.

 

[MTNDOG]

Every state is different. We did look at UK prices minus VAT, and we are basically $10k usd higher before taxes here.

In my area I always add 10% to the purchase price for my taxes, license, etc., So if don't trade in anything and forget about the safari windows, roughly looking $90k with a just the options I consider mandatory, i.e. the ones I can't buy and add on myself, like aux switch panel and lockers.

 

[th_igloo]

Mine came out to a little over $89K. With possible dealer markups, taxes, licenses and other fees, this will easily go over $100K I was hoping to get one out the door ~$85K but that doesn't look like it will happen. I'm in the same boat as most of you here that's contemplating on another vehicle. I've had my eye on a Jeep Gladiator Rubicon but I really wanted the IG to have something different to what's already out there. I was willing to take the risk of being one of the first one to own this but for $100K+ with lots of uncertainty of being a new manufacturer and the type of support I would get, this is really making me think and to be honest not looking too good.

 

[trobex]

The facts are that vehicle pricing has dropped in the last 12 months so there’s that. As has component cost, availability, shipping costs, and fuel. You know… the reasons they gave for the first price hike.

In Australia prices went up about 6% for new vehicles in the last 3 months... for no reason. But car sales are down so good luck with jacking prices up on day-to-day cars. Sales will continue to fall here through to end of year as interest rates are starting to bite. I notice my local swimming club has about 50% of the kids that were there only 6 months ago - people are starting to cut.

Sadly, the IG will be a big seller and prices can be jacked with them still able to fully sell out... for the foreseeable future.

 

[Drausch1976]

Does it qualify under Section 179 for Tax?

Based on the GVW it does. Not sure it will come up on a list year 1 though as no one seems to k ow about it. Including the insurance companies.

 

[jeremy_matrix]

I don't trust either honestly. Computers don't scare me, just requires a different set of tools. The warranties are similar, but with LR you get roadside assistance and a much larger dealer network. I've always done my own work, and I'm not hard on my cars, so I'm not too worried about reliability issues.

Yes, all depends how complicated IA made the electronics on the IG. We know Rover isn't always the best with this.
IA has roadside too; "For extra peace of mind, we’ve selected experienced roadside assistance partners to work closely with us to ensure you have the help you need."

This being said, I already have a pro-level scan tool on my "kit" list for an IG.

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

I just posted this math over on Expo, but here's where some of the sticker shock is coming from for me as a Canadian:

Let's have some fun with math, because I'm in the mood. I'll use my "Ideal Spec" price which resulted in a price of $136k and I'll show my work and sources wherever I can, and since most people finance big purchases, I will also assume that this is being financed fully.

Financing the whole thing over 6 years (a fairly common auto loan length), at today's interest rates (say 7%) means that you'd be paying $2,318 dollars per month for 6 years. That means annually, you'd be paying about $27,816.

Generally, personal finance experts suggest you shouldn't spend more than 20% of your before tax income on your car, gas, and insurance. Let's take the low-end insurance estimate of $1300/year, and take a fairly conservative 10,000 kms of driving which is between 5k to 10k below average, at 16 liters/100 kms (the Gren's stated mileage) and assuming an extremely "cheap" $0.80 cents per liter (that's a full dollar less than I pay in BC) means you're spending another $1280 per year on gas, and let's budget another $1400 for maintenence.

$27,816 - Payments
$1280 - Gas
$1300 - Insurance
$1400 - Maintenence

= $31,796 CDN per year to own the Grenadier.

Using that 20% before-tax income, a person has to be earning $158,980 per year in Canada to afford the Grenadier "responsibly" according to the experts. This totally ignores the cost of living crisis currently underway, by the way; more frugal and conservative advice suggests you should not spend more than 10% of your before tax income on the above, meaning you'd want to be earning $317,960.00

This isn't just a car "For the 1%" as the Occupy Wall Streeters say -- in Canada, "the 1%" starts at $234k per year. That means that to afford the Grenadier, you need to be in some smaller subset of the top 1% of earners in the country, and you need to out-earn those on the threshold of the 1% by nearly $100k. And remember -- that's just to afford to finance the car. Not buy it outright -- you need to be in the top percent of the top percent just to be able to service a loan for the vehicle.

So yeah...Ineos, you built a car that, in Canada at least, only the mega-wealthy can afford to even get a loan on. I'd really love folks to check my math -- these are very conservative numbers that should, if anything, dramatically under-reflect the reality, and I'm a bit gobsmacked by the idea that you'd need to be earning north of $300k to "responsibly" finance the purchase of this vehicle.

 

[Clunster]

It’s almost like every story in the beginning was wadded up and thrown in the trash. What was supposed to be a $58-65k is starting at $80 and going to be $100 by the time the options, taxes, fees, etc are all on it. I guess I’m priced out at this point after years of waiting :-(

I'm sorry you feel down in the dumps but I'm struggling to understand why many seem to think it was going to be a sub $70k vehicle. It's not been designed for volume sales in the price sensitive N. American market and you knew the market prices in Europe/Australia?

 

[A1B2C3D4]

I'm about 90% sure I am canceling. Waiting a week just in case they take care of us people who paid a deposit awhile ago.

$75k-$85k is too high
No dealer info
No off road test drive near me
No on road test drive
Misleading on price point to get people excited.

Just plain disappointing. How can we possibly think of spending this much money with a 6 month or more likely 12 month lead time and no ability to know what we would get or where to get it.

Price seems to include all ridiculous European and equal taxes. I shouldn't even have sales tax in my State.

Like others I just priced out a comparable Defender S. Not the same but comparable options it is $60k versus $80k. Only way I buy a IG is if they honor earlier pricing or somehow admit they made a currency exchange error or something. I don't really want a new defender but at 75% of IG it is a better buy to get a decent 4x4 with 300hp.

Maybe IG doesn't realize the trend is reversing. https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/price-trends/Land-Rover-Defender-d151

 

[G-Tank]

Like others I just priced out a comparable Defender S. Not the same but comparable options it is $60k versus $80k. Only way I buy a IG is if they honor earlier pricing or somehow admit they made a currency exchange error or something. I don't really want a new defender but at 75% of IG it is a better buy to get a decent 4x4 with 300hp.

Maybe IG doesn't realize the trend is reversing. https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/price-trends/Land-Rover-Defender-d151

Looking at all the IG official channels ion Twitter and Instagram. Nothing positive in the comments sections. Everyone is shocked at the price for US.

 

[DenisM]

Frankly, the whole project has been a big middle finger to the US customers. It was never intended to be tailored to what many - not all, but many - Americans look for in a 4x4, whether you are talking about tire size or power (the Grenadier will hit North America as the least powerful 4x4, for its weight, in the entire market). Apart from the transfer case - made by Tremec - nothing has been sourced from North America, despite many excellent options. This is a Euro-spec car, and Ineos and Sir Jim have no need to apologize for that. But I also have no need to give them my money.

As to the various comments about "we shouldn't be surprised by the price" - back when some of us first put in a reservation, pricing was projected to be $50-60K. Of course, many things have changed since then, and inflation has punched everyone in the nuts, but its a long way from $50-60K to $85-100K.

Welcome to the world of imports! Vehicles and related componentry manufactured and assembled in the US for (mainly) US consumption are somewhat sheltered from price vagaries through economies of scale and operating within the "continental" USA.
The imported Grenadier is subject to current European inflationary pressures, huge increases in energy costs (there's a war going on there remember which has hiked energy cost world wide) and, most important, to the relative movement of the US$ to the Euro and GBP on foreign exchange markets. The US Fed's interest rate decisions have significant impact on Rest of the world economies. The US pricing has to take account of all of these factors. I read here of large increases in MSRP of US vehicles generally over the past couple of years...

I have great sympathy for your disappointment. However, I've not read anywhere that Ineos promised a particular price point for the US market... there was speculation on this forum based on FOREX back -of-an-envelope calculations comparing UK/European and Australian prices. ..which may have influenced expectations...but the reality is far more complex.

How does the Ineos compare pricewise to JLR offerings? That, to my mind would be the yardstick...not to the mass production output from Ford/Toyota/GM and Stellantis (Jeep)

 

[STACHES]

Yes, all depends how complicated IA made the electronics on the IG. We know Rover isn't always the best with this.

It really comes down to who did the firmware and software for all the bits (and there are a lot of them even on the grenadier). If they outsourced it to a sub par supplier to keep costs low, things could get ugly. If they did it in-house, did they hire the right people with experience to do it right?

 

[STACHES]

How does the Ineos compare pricewise to JLR offerings?

About $20k more for the sameish spec.