(The battery and monitor thread )Car dead in the middle of the woods

[das mo]

Hi all.

Car is dead.

Battery was at 50% 2 hours back.
We now packed all together and car does not start.

Is there an Ineos support hotline I can call on a Sunday?

Thanks

 

[MarkH]

I cant confirm as Ineos so far only provides me one load status and that was in the 50-55% range an hour before.

I am lost if this means both are at 55 or I have half the aux battery to kill before my fridge shuts of.

Would be great to understand what Ineos planned the system to be, to understand if it works as planned or not, before we start adapting it and end up in a scenario where they might call it my fault that I killed both batteries in no time…

Were you running the fridge from the 12V cig socket in the cargo/boot area and for how many nights? And what else were you running and from where?

 

[Logsplitter]

Andrew, are you going to connect the red wire on the D250SE to +12V ignition? I find it strange, unless the Grenadier has a conventional alternator, that the red wire on the smartpass is not connected.

See my post 154. I questioned Ineos and Ctek about this wiring set up and seems it is wired correctly although not using the small red wire. My dual battery set up certainly seems to charge both batteries although I haven’t flattened the starter battery enough to tell whether the emergency start function would work by briefly joining the service battery to the starter to aid starting

 

[Christoph]

Yep, remember you can have the extra switches/wiring without the auxillary battery (this is what I have) - I doubt the wiring changes when the aux battery is fitted

Indeed, Simon, but didn't we agree so far that the power in the boot is coming from the main battery so shouldn't that be the same for you (extra switches without aux battery) and me (extra switches with aux battery)?

 

[AnD3rew]

Andrew, are you going to connect the red wire on the D250SE to +12V ignition? I find it strange, unless the Grenadier has a conventional alternator, that the red wire on the smartpass is not connected.

Probably. Slightly nervous if it messes up something in the currently fragile software system but it makes sense logically. I do wonder if it wasn’t connected to help with meeting a fuel consumption target

 

[TD5-90]

...
If the 120S is wired correctly by INEOS (which I prosume) and if there is no glitch in the installation, the 120S "load" output is the right point to connect a fridge (and any other dispensable load as well).

ACK.

....I'd only install a 250SE if I had solar panels and want to integrate them correctly in the installation.

Not so wise IMHO. As explained earlier here, the aux batt will charge neither fully nor as quickly as possible if you don't use a "DCDC charger".


In my view, if a 120S is already present (and configured correctly by attaching red ctrl wire to IGN, as also explained earlier here), a 250SE is a good idea. Even if no solar panel is used.

If it was not present, I'd rather go for an isolated DCDC charger, e.g. Victron TR smart Isolated. Despite some shortcomings (actual charging current not reported by BT interface, rather not so up-to-date efficiency), advantage is that if the charger fails/blows, the 2 batteries remain separated. The rare case of a dead starter batt would be tackled by jumper wire, _after_ analyzing what was/is the problem (I personally don't like the automatic bridging function of the 120S).


I'm using the Victron in my T3 camper together with a Liontron 40AH battery (which _does_ reports charge/discharge current via BT ). Cheapish small solar panel behind wind screen connected via cheapish small dissipative charge controller to starter battery to keep it healthy over longer periods of not using the vehicle.

 

[bakepl]

See my post 154. I questioned Ineos and Ctek about this wiring set up and seems it is wired correctly although not using the small red wire. My dual battery set up certainly seems to charge both batteries although I haven’t flattened the starter battery enough to tell whether the emergency start function would work by briefly joining the service battery to the starter to aid starting

Easy enough to find out I’m thinking about what’s going on or not with charge rates....if you have a fully charged start battery or close to and deplete your aux battery to around 50%, go for a drive for 10 minutes and with the engine running measure the voltage across the aux battery terminals, if it’s charging the aux properly I’m thinking should be over 13.7.... if volts has dropped a fair bit under this then smart charger has kicked in dropping the volts right down upon seeing a fully charged start battery (smart charger is there to help with less emissions).... any auto sparkys here could comment?

 

[das mo]

We been travelling with the Engel fridge running in tue boot for over three weeks now. Only other power consumption while camping was loading mobile devices from the sockets in feont of the back seats. We mainly stayed for one night per spot. Last night charge went down from 84% to only 75%. Temperatures at night time being between 5 and 15 degrees C all trip.

Were you running the fridge from the 12V cig socket in the cargo/boot area and for how many nights? And what else were you running and from where?

 

[MACS]

Did you try: „Wende Dich innerhalb Europas* an die Nummer 0330 053 0885, und wir helfen Dir, wieder auf die Straße oder ins Gelände zu kommen.“

Service Fur Deinen Grenadier

Wir bauen ein Service- und Reparaturnetzwerk für Deinen Grenadier auf – in der ganzen Welt. Mehr Entdecken

ineosgrenadier.com

0330 0530885 is a UK number provided by DAA +44 330 0530885 made the connection.
They can put you through to a another number +44 192 632 0004 (Jaguar Land Rover Assistance)
I did call them, The fiendly lady promised that help is possible under the circumstances i described. (Sweden, breakdown, INEOS Grenadier, etc.)
And she confirmed i reached "Jaguar Land Rover Assistance"

Sorry for not better investigating on this before posting. Glad you got out of trouble anyway. I was at N 57° 14' 20,5" O 22° 10' 11,4" when you posted.

 

[Znarfgh]

I'd think so.

But the CTEK thing is still a bit unclear to me as the manual does only contain only a general description but no technical or functional details.

This from the CTEK manual:

"SMARTPASS 120S:
Is a smart combination of relays (actually MOSFETS) that connects starter and service batteries. This enables current from your alternator to charge both batteries. The SMARTPASS 120S will not control the voltage applied to the service battery. For that you need a D250SE installed inparallel. The current through the SMARTPASS 120S to a service battery depends on the alternator output voltage, cable length/dimension and the charge acceptance of your battery. Themax continuous current is 120A.

Start assistance.
SMARTPASS 120S automatically connects the service and starter battery, if the starter battery on its own is unable to start the engine. After the start assistance function has been activated, SMARTPASS 120S will display a fault indication that remains until starting has been achieved without the use of the start assistance function."

As far as I know the auxiliary battery is the same 110Ah EFB as the cranking battery and is, in my book, not suited to deep cycle applications such as running fridges. I think it's mainly to supply plenty of short-term power for winching applications. Without any wiring diagrams it's difficult to say what's going on with any certainty though.

 

[Znarfgh]

Mine are advanced flooded batteries as all are I would guess EFB Plus View attachment 7821022

Looking at this wiring setup it looks like the Smartpass is just a bridge from the starting to the auxiliary battery. Thie Smartpass allows the auxiliary battery to be charged by the alternator in tandem with the starter battery. At a point where the voltage drops to a certain threshold the Smartpass is meant to disconnect the starter battery to enable you to start the vehicle. And, if there is not enough juice in the starter battery you should be able to link it to the auxiliary battery and combined they should allow the vehicle to start.

This seems to be the way the IOG is wired with all loads coming from both batteries. So, if running a fridge (which is the biggest consumer of power in most vehicles) the batteries will not last all that long and this is what probably happened in this case. The fridge should probably have been connected as per the above drawing but again without having a wiring diagram this is speculation on my part.

I'm patiently waiting for my vehicle so I can figure it out.

 

[Logsplitter]

My Grenadier as with other peoples Grenadiers on this forum who have the dual battery set up come with no loads / consumers attached to the service battery , all power sockets winch etc are connected to the main starter battery.
I’ve connected my fridge to the consumer output terminal of the smartpass as per above but have not tested it yet to the point where it cuts off if voltage is low as a backup my fridge has low voltage shut off as well.

 

[bakepl]

Looking at this wiring setup it looks like the Smartpass is just a bridge from the starting to the auxiliary battery. Thie Smartpass allows the auxiliary battery to be charged by the alternator in tandem with the starter battery. At a point where the voltage drops to a certain threshold the Smartpass is meant to disconnect the starter battery to enable you to start the vehicle. And, if there is not enough juice in the starter battery you should be able to link it to the auxiliary battery and combined they should allow the vehicle to start.
View attachment 7821397
This seems to be the way the IOG is wired with all loads coming from both batteries. So, if running a fridge (which is the biggest consumer of power in most vehicles) the batteries will not last all that long and this is what probably happened in this case. The fridge should probably have been connected as per the above drawing but again without having a wiring diagram this is speculation on my part.

I'm patiently waiting for my vehicle so I can figure it out.

100%, without diagrams who knows... next best thing the vehicle - or visa verse, I'd rather the vehicle first and I guess I will.. all good things comes to.... as the saying goes.

 

[Znarfgh]

View attachment 7821188
I'm trying to understand the two amber/yellow lights. They seem to be "normal" function indications but one seems to imply that the service battery is providing current to the consumers; but there's nothing connected to the consumer terminal?

The amber lights indicate that the Smartpass is working - no lights or a red light means ther'es an issue.

 

[Tazzieman]

My Grenadier as with other peoples Grenadiers on this forum who have the dual battery set up come with no loads / consumers attached to the service battery , all power sockets winch etc are connected to the main starter battery.

So do the agents mention this? I guess not.
And particularly the potential need for a jump start sooner rather than later?
I'm looking fwd to someone figuring out the optimal wiring!

 

[Logsplitter]

So do the agents mention this? I guess not.
And particularly the potential need for a jump start sooner rather than later?
I'm looking fwd to someone figuring out the optimal wiring!

I’ve asked Ineos and Ctek and apparently this is a correct way of wiring up the dual battery system. See attached as per an earlier post re Ineos response

 

[DCPU]

The amber lights indicate that the Smartpass is working - no lights or a red light means ther'es an issue.

Right - I thought the green light showed it was working?

I've yet to see a red light (no bad thing) - is there actually one?

 

[Tazzieman]

I’ve asked Ineos and Ctek and apparently this is a correct way of wiring up the dual battery system. See attached as per an earlier post re Ineos response

Well I guess they know best , but someone here will know better

 

[DCPU]

This from the CTEK manual:

"SMARTPASS 120S:
Is a smart combination of relays (actually MOSFETS) that connects starter and service batteries. This enables current from your alternator to charge both batteries. The SMARTPASS 120S will not control the voltage applied to the service battery.

So why would it have a smart alternator cable?

And from the manual:

I think it's mainly to supply plenty of short-term power for winching applications.

I don't think it does this unless it cannot distinguish between a current draw on the main battery for cranking and a current draw on the main battery battery for winching - essentially "smart assistance".

 

[Oscar01]

From My ignorance, I get the feeling that as the dual battery system is configured, the extra battery is isolated, to assist starting, as the only connection the battery has is to the CTEK via a fuse.

This may work, you have all the elements to the main battery, and if you use it up, when you start, the backup battery will do it through the bridge made by the CTEK.
But this may not work, because of mixing the CTEK, with the smart alternator, and not having connected the red wire from the CTEK to a positive ignition it probably won't fully charge the secondary battery.

I guess we will be cleared soon.

Sorry to hear about the incident Das mo, thank goodness you were able to get it sorted soon.

 

[DenisM]

I haven't driven the vehicle for a week so I checked the voltage between the charging post and the closest earth: 12.5V or ~70%
I connected a new Victron 15Amp smart charger ...took about 1 hr 50 mins to register the "green light" float status. I let it settle then checked the voltage again after 10 mins with two different multimeters. One registered 12.59V, the other 12.60V. ...say about 80%. I would have expected higher. I didn't have time to check the battery status on the main display.