(The battery and monitor thread )Car dead in the middle of the woods

[das mo]

Hi all.

Car is dead.

Battery was at 50% 2 hours back.
We now packed all together and car does not start.

Is there an Ineos support hotline I can call on a Sunday?

Thanks

 

[CountyV8]

I have emailed Ctek with the details I posted above and asked about wiring requirements if I add the D250SE. I await their response. But I’m sure someone on this forum has had the D250SE added to their system already so maybe they will see this thread and clarify the situation.

Think Pete Bell has installed one he is member here.

 

[Gwynne]

Yes, the fridge being by far the main consumer can be run directly from the aux battery via a simple fused Anderson plug connection, the starter is isolated. Or, you could use the output terminal on the Smartpass, starter is still isolated. Pros and cons of doing this though. Pro is, the fridge is powered directly by the alternator when on the move leaving the 250SE to correctly charge the aux battery faster and without the interruption of the fridge cycling on/off, which can continually knock it out of the preferred charging regime and back into bulk mode. The con is the fridge load will be cut if the Smartpass detects the aux battery voltage dropping below 11.8V, or thereabouts. You may not notice the fridge is off, say you've left camp away from the vehicle beach fishing all day - disaster strikes and you come home to warm beers! It'd be prudent to wire in a cheap easy-to-sight digital voltage readout for the aux battery to give you at least a rough guide on SOC. Best viewed after the fridge has cycled off so the load doesn't skew the voltage. Stick the chart attached below somewhere nearby for quick reference. EFBs behave similar to AGMs.
If your fridge has low voltage cutoff you may as well run it from the Smartpass thereby letting the 250SE do its thing more effectively while on the move. If the fridge doesn't have volatge cutoff built-in you might want to run it direct from the aux. This way in a pinch you can keep the fridge running below 11.8V, but once you see 10.9V battery damage accelerates. OK once in a blue moon but best avoided where possible or the cells start turning up their toes.

Don't rely on the % display in the infotainment unit to monitor the battery/s while camped, it's likely far from accurate.
Until I have the vehicle and can suss out the wiring I'd just be leaving the roof outlets as they are and running a couple of LED camp lights from the starter. It's the same EFB 105Ah battery (think AGM) so should handle small loads like that no problem, as long as it wasn't 50% when you rolled into camp. You could add a 2nd voltage readout to the starter. Worse case you carry a compact jump starter for justin'. I have the Gooloo GT3000 which starts my 3.0L V6 Jeep no problem. see attached.

Hi Mark. I'm thinking of getting a jump starter for my Grenadier - just to have it covered. On page 124 of the User Manual it states that if the battery is discharged you attach the +ve cable to the positive battery terminal and the -ve cable to the earth. Can anyone show me where these are for starter battery on a Trialmaster with the extra batteries. Apologies - I'm not as technically minded as most here!

 

[AWo]

Normaly the loader (CTEK) should show the smart alternator that it still needs to draw currens

https://maps.app.goo.gl/8uzH6rQcAAeKn7bX9?g_st=ic

Will try to stop a car…

BTW, have you been at Weiterweg? They are/were close to your positon, in Nornäs. Martin might (have) be(en) able to help...

AWo

 

[Logsplitter]

Hi Mark. I'm thinking of getting a jump starter for my Grenadier - just to have it covered. On page 124 of the User Manual it states that if the battery is discharged you attach the +ve cable to the positive battery terminal and the -ve cable to the earth. Can anyone show me where these are for starter battery on a Trialmaster with the extra batteries. Apologies - I'm not as technically minded as most here!

For attaching a jump starter such as a NOCO boost or jump leads use the jump start post under the bonnet underneath the red cap for live post and engine lifting eye just above that for the earth on the petrol version

 

[Lollo050968]

+1 did the same, and in my garage overhead the bonnet I have the power plug for the CTEK, for Camping I use the adapter for 12v inside plug

 

[trobex]

Seriously this post annoys the hell out of me.

How difficult is it for a manufacturer to provide clear, accurate and concise information regarding something THEY have provided at an additional cost. Sheeeess.


Ok, some context- not as annoyed as ASPW is.

I am perplexed at the complication of this issue, and, that it takes guesswork nearly from 20 people to work out how to rectify (temp) the problem haha. Or am I just jaded and things like this both sh*** me in a new car or I just have the idea of more electrics for less... I need to understand this situation properly when time permits, so a plan can be formulated for such adventures!

 

[Logsplitter]

Here is the answer from Ctek regarding if you want to add the D250SE
“The red thin smart alternator cable on D250SE can also be connected.
It ensures charging of your service battery when the alternator is is in smart mode (low charging voltage mode)”

 

[Krabby]

Does the IG have a smart alternator? (Sheepishly adds I have no clue what that even is)

 

[Jeremy996]

Does the IG have a smart alternator? (Sheepishly adds I have no clue what that even is)

It appears to; if you look at the "Electrical" screen on the Offroad set on the screen, it shows the battery state and the rate of charging. With the battery at 70% or more, the level of charging is minimal, at 50%, the level of charging is huge, with higher peaks as you come off the throttle.

A smart alternator is one controlled by the engine or body ECU to reduce drag on the engine, keep the battery with pre-set limits by altering the level of charging from the alternator to the battery dynamically. On breaking or coming off the throttle, the alternator will increase the amps produced to harness the otherwise wasted energy.

 

[Logsplitter]

It appears to; if you look at the "Electrical" screen on the Offroad set on the screen, it shows the battery state and the rate of charging. With the battery at 70% or more, the level of charging is minimal, at 50%, the level of charging is huge, with higher peaks as you come off the throttle.

A smart alternator is one controlled by the engine or body ECU to reduce drag on the engine, keep the battery with pre-set limits by altering the level of charging from the alternator to the battery dynamically. On breaking or coming off the throttle, the alternator will increase the amps produced to harness the otherwise wasted energy.

I think virtually all modern cars have smart alternators as helps cut down on emissions apparently

How can I tell if my vehicle has a smart alternator

How can I tell if my vehicle has a smart alternator - article by 12 Volt Planet. Split charging; you might have seen the phrase Smart Alternator or Euro5/6 engine but what is a Smart Alternator and how can you tell if you have one?

www.12voltplanet.co.uk

 

[Lollo050968]

+1

+1 Petrol too

 

[DCPU]

Below is Jean's image showing red wire is not connected.. therefore smartpass does not know the vehicle has a smart alternator...

I'm trying to understand the two amber/yellow lights. They seem to be "normal" function indications but one seems to imply that the service battery is providing current to the consumers; but there's nothing connected to the consumer terminal?

 

[das mo]

Normaly the loader (CTEK) should show the smart alternator that it still needs to draw currens

BTW, have you been at Weiterweg? They are/were close to your positon, in Nornäs. Martin might (have) be(en) able to help...

AWo

Nope.

Just camping 85km away on our way back south.

 

[das mo]

Do you have a specific information within the setup menu regarding the fault?
I remember that I once noticed a list of all „active“ faults.

Yellow light was only in the LED info screen behind the steering.

The menu item on the main screen turned out useless as it keeps listing stuff, but you cannot take action from there.

 

[das mo]

Falls Du in Schweden einen Lade-Stopp benötigst, melde Dich gerne bei mir

Danke.

Running for now, but it remains sailing in tue dark until Ineos shares some more info and provided a software update that provides more insight (as long as sensors are installed and able to report status on both batteries) or I buy and install hardware on my own to track and monitor the batteries.

 

[das mo]

@das mo might be able to confirm but it sounds like the aux and starter battery were both depleted. Maybe from a fridge running off the cig point in the cargo area draining the starter and other consumers such as camp lights, inverters, phone/laptop chargers draining the aux battery, and/or the aux battery was only half charged to start, either from the previous nights loads or some recent use, and it hadn't had enough engine time to recharge fully. Even with the 2 batteries connected by the Smartpass start assist there wasn't enough charge to turn the engine over. Also, the start assist can be unreliable, reports of this on youtube from users.

I cant confirm as Ineos so far only provides me one load status and that was in the 50-55% range an hour before.

I am lost if this means both are at 55 or I have half the aux battery to kill before my fridge shuts of.

Would be great to understand what Ineos planned the system to be, to understand if it works as planned or not, before we start adapting it and end up in a scenario where they might call it my fault that I killed both batteries in no time…

 

[DCPU]

But also possible/probable that they buy in bulk from CTEK without the boxes and connectors.

The box in the photo in my post is the box that was with the vehicle as delivered to the agent.

 

[Logsplitter]

The box in the photo in my post is the box that was with the vehicle as delivered to the agent.

+1

 

[CountyV8]

The box in the photo in my post is the box that was with the vehicle as delivered to the agent.

I have the box too

 

[KDJDGrenadier]

It’s a bit unique to CTEK in a way, but also not. Many basic dual battery systems just use a voltage sensitive relay which connects the batteries until it drops to a certain voltage and then isolates. The Smartpass replaces that but is a bit smarter than your average VSR. The next step up is to add a dc/dc charger which adds a solar regulator and smarter charging modes and better ability to handle smart alternators etc which is essentially what the D250SE is. So CTEK is basically a dc/dc charger plus a smarter than average VSR

Andrew, are you going to connect the red wire on the D250SE to +12V ignition? I find it strange, unless the Grenadier has a conventional alternator, that the red wire on the smartpass is not connected.