Steering

[DCPU]

In my experience its not an intrinsic flaw in the steering on all cars as I and others have not had this experience. I wonder what could be wrong on those few cars that do seem to drive as described?

Step one ~ rule out the driver...

 

[Lollo050968]

If you are driving Off-road Mode and in low gear, you have additional the angle of the wheels in the main monitor. This shows at my car 0 Degree, at the time steering wheel is exactly in the middle! Maybe this is an option to test for everyone who think to have a steering wheel ex center.

 

[Eric]

Interesting that some people have steering issues that make them feel unsafe at speed. I have had mine on the motorway and dual carriageways at up to 80mph and did not feel unsafe at all - though 70 feels like a much more comfortable long distance cruise speed if only for the wind noise. When I first picked it up I did not want to go over 60 but that's because I was not used to its bulk at first. I mean, obviously I would not want to take it at speed on a winding B road but that's because it is huge. I certainly do not have this same experience, fortunately.

In my experience its not an intrinsic flaw in the steering on all cars as I and others have not had this experience. I wonder what could be wrong on those few cars that do seem to drive as described?

It might be useful if people are reporting feeling uncomfortable with the steering they could specify wheel info;
a) Steel or alloy,
b) size 17 or 18
c) tyre manufacturer
d) tyre pressure F and R

 

[DaveB]

It might be useful if people are reporting feeling uncomfortable with the steering they could specify wheel info;
a) Steel or alloy,
b) size 17 or 18
c) tyre manufacturer
d) tyre pressure F and R

I think they also need to report if their wallet was in the back pocket or front.
Also if they were holding the steering wheel correctly at 9 & 3 or doing a taxi driver style.

 

[Unimog 406]

Update
I have spoken to my agent who has arranged an appointment for me tomorrow Tuesday at 10.00 for a vehicle inspection with my steering issue. I also sent an email to my (reliable) contact at Ineos customer services and copied my agent with the following.

Paragraph 1
"I have reported today to my agent Jardine Kent that the steering on my vehicle is dangerous and not fit for purpose. This may be a known problem and there is a remedy available. I am experienced enough not to take chances with my safety and others. The steering is unpredictable when taking evasive action at 50MPH and not safe when attempting to drive a straight line on a motorway in excess 60MPH."

If any of the Forums contributors who have steering concerns as Shaky, Sloany and myself on this issue why not pass on our details of concerned owners vehicles either jointly or privately if prefered?
It would make sense to collectively work together and assist Ineos with access with as much information as is available.
We have all been waiting a long time and want the Grenadier to be a success.

Would any one like to comment.
Graham

Hi all
The result of my agents test drive this morning.

"The steering is performing outside previously driven vehicles and worsens with increased speed".
The agents proposal is to report to their contact at Ineos. Marc my sales manager made two attempts to reach his technical contact at Ineois whilst I was present but unsuccessfully.
Moving forward they propose to request:-
Any advice available.
Centralising the steering wheel positioning which is around 20 degrees off centre.
Checking all the steering and wheel alignment geometry.
Inspect and steering column linkages and bracketry.
Requesting steering box technical information, what are the correct settings, can it be adjusted, if possible how is this achieved.

As far as I'm concerned today I cannot have hoped for a better outcome.
I'll keep you all updated.
Graham

 

[DCPU]

20 degrees!

Was it always 20 degrees from day 1, or has that increased over time?

Aren't the answers to some/most/all of those questions available for your agent to get directly for themselves through the technical portal?

I didn't get to measure 20 degrees, but this is what 10 degrees looks like as a visual reference:

 

[Trialmaster]

I have no issues of feeling unsafe with steering. But the wheel is slightly off, a few degrees clockwise and going straight. Will have adjusted at a service.

That is my experience also.

 

[DCPU]

I was watching this video and thought the steering marker and/or the steering itself was off from dead 12 o'clock.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBaSQSmD-4g


Thought I would do a quick image check of the alignment of the top steering wheel marker relative to the two small buttons on the steering wheel spokes. They are the reference points.

The two small buttons are dead level (the original screen capture of the video was out by .5 degrees. I rotated the entire image .5 deg to compensate and buttons are now level). With that done, A dead horizontal line (green) through those buttons and two vertical lines through them. Top line centred on the 'marker', also in green.

The red line is dead vertical.

The orange line begins at the bottom, same as the red line and runs up through the centre of the 'marker' - You can see the difference. There is a 1.2 degree difference from what should be dead centre to the centre of the marker stitched into the wheel.

NOTE: It's possible, maybe, that lens distortion might affect this but given the wheel is centred in the camera frame, I doubt it.

It would be handy to have someone build a rig that can measure this for real.

So it's possible that the top steering wheel markers are off centre relative to the rest of the wheel.

View attachment 7820375

Well not quite a rig, but I did a few measurements.

The red and the green lines are both the same length and hopefully reference the same point on each side of the steering wheel.

Less obvious in the photo at this resolution is that the front top edge of the spokes (above the top line of the yellow rectangle) is not a straight line but rather a slight angle upwards away from the centre. It is also dished outwards from the centre.

I tried a plumb line but it gave the same result when measuring off identical points on each side of the wheel:


The third thing I tried was to feel freeplay around the centre. It's almost impossible to put the same amount of force into the left and right, and although some of the readings i got were in a range, what was consistent is that there was more free play when turning the wheel to the right than when turning it to the left:

 

[YellowLab]

Hi
My apologies, I wasn't meaning it as an insult
I was suggesting that the government should focus on more important things than worrying about a knob on a steering wheel.
The homeless situation all over the world is an issue but I often feel that priorities are misplaced

No worries David -

 

[Shaky]

Interesting that

Hi all
The result of my agents test drive this morning.

"The steering is performing outside previously driven vehicles and worsens with increased speed".
The agents proposal is to report to their contact at Ineos. Marc my sales manager made two attempts to reach his technical contact at Ineois whilst I was present but unsuccessfully.
Moving forward they propose to request:-
Any advice available.
Centralising the steering wheel positioning which is around 20 degrees off centre.
Checking all the steering and wheel alignment geometry.
Inspect and steering column linkages and bracketry.
Requesting steering box technical information, what are the correct settings, can it be adjusted, if possible how is this achieved.

As far as I'm concerned today I cannot have hoped for a better outcome.
I'll keep you all updated.
Graham

Interesting that your agent has said this, I wonder if something was tighten correctly from factory or if it just wasn’t set up right at manufacture.

It could be either, I suppose.

As feed back from my own position, I have lowered the two front BFG 17’ tyres on alloys to 37lbs pressure and on initial testing it seems better but I still have a drive back through a lot of Welsh country roads that are nice and tight at times. This is where the problem is and not on a motorway with plenty of room.

Either overtaking or meeting another large van, 4x4 or wagon gets a bit nerve tingling. Even in an Amorok I am more than happy with my vehicle and my own ability to get through gaps and still make progress. However I would describe the IG doing the same stuff as trying to thread a needle with a shaky hand.

I will certainly be adding it to the list for the agent.

Excuse the pun taking into account my nickname

 

[Unimog 406]

Interesting that


Interesting that your agent has said this, I wonder if something was tighten correctly from factory or if it just wasn’t set up right at manufacture.

It could be either, I suppose.

As feed back from my own position, I have lowered the two front BFG 17’ tyres on alloys to 37lbs pressure and on initial testing it seems better but I still have a drive back through a lot of Welsh country roads that are nice and tight at times. This is where the problem is and not on a motorway with plenty of room.

Either overtaking or meeting another large van, 4x4 or wagon gets a bit nerve tingling. Even in an Amorok I am more than happy with my vehicle and my own ability to get through gaps and still make progress. However I would describe the IG doing the same stuff as trying to thread a needle with a shaky hand.

I will certainly be adding it to the list for the agent.

Excuse the pun taking into account my nickname

My tyres are all 37 PSI as when PDI'd and on hand over. The instruction manuals states 36PSI for lightly loaded vehicle 2 people and light load. If 5 people and fully laden 49 PSI
I just hope Ineos are using any suppliers British Leyland used back in the 1980's

 

[Unimog 406]

Well not quite a rig, but I did a few measurements.
View attachment 7820433
The red and the green lines are both the same length and hopefully reference the same point on each side of the steering wheel.

Less obvious in the photo at this resolution is that the front top edge of the spokes (above the top line of the yellow rectangle) is not a straight line but rather a slight angle upwards away from the centre. It is also dished outwards from the centre.

I tried a plumb line but it gave the same result when measuring off identical points on each side of the wheel:
View attachment 7820434

The third thing I tried was to feel freeplay around the centre. It's almost impossible to put the same amount of force into the left and right, and although some of the readings i got were in a range, what was consistent is that there was more free play when turning the wheel to the right than when turning it to the left:
View attachment 7820436View attachment 7820435

Are we on the same page? 20 degrees off centre, to the right from the 12 o'clock position to drive in a straight line

 

[DCPU]

Are we on the same page? 20 degrees off centre, to the right from the 12 o'clock position to drive in a straight line

That's what OP wrote, struggling to understand if it's a typo or we're not measuring it the same way?

 

[Miki]

Step one ~ rule out the driver...

Thats not very fair is it.

See post #170 for a more detailed response.

 

[YellowLab]

Thats not very fair is it.
It's not the car, it's you.
Basically, you can't drive, theres nothing wrong with the wonderful Grenadier it's the driver... @DCPU (aka Harry from the film Matilda) nails it again.

I'm surprised Ineos is letting steering challenged people acquire a car they are so not qualified to drive. They must have the shakes from drinking hence why they cannot steer in a straight line. Much bigger issue hiding in plain sight...

 

[AWo]

Interesting that your agent has said this, I wonder if something was tighten correctly from factory or if it just wasn’t set up right at manufacture.
.

However....as mistakes happen....the question for.me is, why was it handed over to the customer?

If that didn't happen while the customer was driving, how many people have overseen this?

AWo

 

[DaveB]

Take a look at this guys hand/s on a straight flat tar section at 84kmh

View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/50lwunQlQJs

View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/rqGVGFzH32U

Straight ahead and very little movement

 

[YellowLab]

Take a look at this guys hand/s on a straight flat tar section at 84kmh

View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/50lwunQlQJs

View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/rqGVGFzH32U

Straight ahead and very little movement

Yep - I bet that's a stool pigeon who works on the janitorial staff at Ineos - wants you to THINK he's not owned by the company....

 

[anand]

Take a look at this guys hand/s on a straight flat tar section at 84kmh

View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/50lwunQlQJs

View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/rqGVGFzH32U

Straight ahead and very little movement

And that's exactly what the LHD models feel like to drive at those speeds...

 

[DaveB]

Yep - I bet that's a stool pigeon who works on the janitorial staff at Ineos - wants you to THINK he's not owned by the company....

That was me taking the video from the back seat
This was the vehicle and next circuit I drove it even faster and also around a lot of twists and bends.