Steering

[anand]

Driving my Grenadier know way would I be driving at ANY speed one handed or taking my eyes off the road it would be just too dangerous

Interesting that you feel that way, while driving along a single carriageway (pretty sure I got that British nomenclature correct) at ~60mph I can't say I had any concerns or difficulty driving with just a few fingers on the steering wheel and my arm on the door sill in several different Grenadiers

 

[AnD3rew]

As I don’t have my Grenadier yet I probably should keep my mouth shut until I have the experience, but I do wonder if some people just have nervous hands. I have had and do have many older vehicles many of them have quite loose steering in that there is some play in the wheel until you load it up. That means if you tightly grip the wheel and your hands move around it can look and feel like you have to keep adjusting but if you lighten up your grip and keep still it will track fine until the direction of the road changes. Maybe some people Harry included need to lighten up their grip.

 

[DenisM]

As I don’t have my Grenadier yet I probably should keep my mouth shut until I have the experience, but I do wonder if some people just have nervous hands. I have had and do have many older vehicles many of them have quite loose steering in that there is some play in the wheel until you load it up. That means if you tightly grip the wheel and your hands move around it can look and feel like you have to keep adjusting but if you lighten up your grip and keep still it will track fine until the direction of the road changes. Maybe some people Harry included need to lighten up their grip.

Agreed... knowing how to get, and keep, a grip on things is an important life lesson!

 

[Sloany]

As I don’t have my Grenadier yet I probably should keep my mouth shut until I have the experience, but I do wonder if some people just have nervous hands. I have had and do have many older vehicles many of them have quite loose steering in that there is some play in the wheel until you load it up. That means if you tightly grip the wheel and your hands move around it can look and feel like you have to keep adjusting but if you lighten up your grip and keep still it will track fine until the direction of the road changes. Maybe some people Harry included need to lighten up their grip.

My old man would have me drive his 1970s JCB 3C to site on a Saturday morning ready for work Monday morning when i was 16 yrs old! You wouldn't drive that with nervous hands it was like manouevring a boat down the road Hopefully mine just needs the tyre pressures adjusting.

 

[evomind]

Ive been told by people on this board that the Grenadier drives better than the current Jeep and I see them doing 75-80mph all the time

 

[255/85]

Recirculation ball steering is not an exclusive feature of offroad vehicles or a feature of them at all. It was used 50 years ago in cars like in my Land Rover Series 2a from 1971 and in upper class limousins, as it was the better screw spindle steering. It is robust and you need less effort to turn it, that other steerings at that time. However today you only find it in trucks. The recirculation ball steering is less precise, bigger, heavier and needs servicing after a few years.

The most used kind of power steering in 4x4s is the power worm spindle steering. It is lighter, smaller, less parts and needs no maintenance. My steerings of that kind are between 36 and 11 years old, no trouble so far. I once revised my ball circulation steering of my Land Rover Series, no big deal.

AWo

Apologies. I still think Recirculating Ball is the likely the stronger/more durable of the two. I have vehicles with over 200K miles using hydraulic RB and the steering boxes neither leak nor need adjustment. The only one I have had rebuilt was 45 years old at the time and had many hundred of thousands of miles of hard use on it.

 

[Skydance]

Hi Sloany, sorry to hear you have something not right/safe with faster speeds. I don't understand how putting 5000 miles on the steering it will settle down, if it settles down that mush in 5K what will it be like with 10 or 15K?
A question though, what were your Tyre pressures prior to dropping to 36PSI and are you trusting the in car readings? Mine are reading 37PSI which I haven't yet checked. I then plan to drop at least 2lbs or possibly a bit more and go for a test run.
Graham

The steering damper will settle down slightly and become softer after a few thousand miles. It certainly did on my Jimny when I install a new steering damper. Hopefully, the steering will become easier to centre.

 

[255/85]

A big contributor to the failure of some solid axle front ends to return to center is too much preload on the knuckle kingpin bearings. Some folks set them tight to extend knuckle bearing life though I'm not sure how effective that is. Carraro's specs may be on the high side intentionally knowing the intended usage of the Grenadier. I'm just happy we're not getting ball joints which are a pain to deal with in the field.

Another cause is too little positive caster iirc which gives very responsive steering at low speeds but is twitchy on the highway. That doesn't seem to be the issue here.

 

[Unimog 406]

My old man would have me drive his 1970s JCB 3C to site on a Saturday morning ready for work Monday morning when i was 16 yrs old! You wouldn't drive that with nervous hands it was like manouevring a boat down the road Hopefully mine just needs the tyre pressures adjusting.

A big contributor to the failure of some solid axle front ends to return to center is too much preload on the knuckle kingpin bearings. Some folks set them tight to extend knuckle bearing life though I'm not sure how effective that is. Carraro's specs may be on the high side intentionally knowing the intended usage of the Grenadier. I'm just happy we're not getting ball joints which are a pain to deal with in the field.

Another cause is too little positive caster iirc which gives very responsive steering at low speeds but is twitchy on the highway. That doesn't seem to be the issue here.

 

[Rab]

I wonder if it’s just the tyres, I have the Bridgestones and quite happy with the road manners, as has been suggested it’s probably worth experimenting on either side of the recommended pressure with the KO2s

 

[Tom109]

You could try altering them to say 36psi front?

This. I found that my ‘96 Discovery handling improved once the front were slightly lower PSI than the rear.

 

[Tazzieman]

This. I found that my ‘96 Discovery handling improved once the front were slightly lower PSI than the rear.

As per the placard affixed to the vehicle?

 

[Tom109]

As per the placard affixed to the vehicle?

Basically. IIRC there was a 6-8psi difference F:R, rear being higher. With oversized tires and lift, I do the chalk & roll test for tire contact.

 

[Shaky]

I am going to to drop my tyre pressures as suggested here.

Why - that bloody steering is quite frankly dangerous at speed. I have just done 125 miles mainly on Welsh country roads. I overtook a van at one point and nearly ended up side swiping it. The steering constantly needs adjusting and at speed it starts to turn into an oversteer, understeer situation.

On a motorway it’s a bit better but still requires continuous driver correction to keep it straight.

I am not happy with that steering at all.

Before anyone decides I must have twitchy hands or I am not a very good driver, or only used to driving a few modern vehicles, think again. Without details I am a very safe and experienced driver and well used to driving vehicles at speed. The actual handling even with KO2 tyres doesn’t worry me, but that steering makes me as nervous as hell.

The only steering I have experienced as bad is ancient Landrovers, which I would never attempt to drive at the speeds the Ineos should be capable of.

Hopefully lowering tyre pressures will help, if not I will wait and unhappily pay an aftermarket company to be able to supply me with a steering solution that is safe.

FYI - I am talking about overtakes on some not so wide roads at 60mph

 

[rovie]

I am going to to drop my tyre pressures as suggested here.

Why - that bloody steering is quite frankly dangerous at speed. I have just done 125 miles mainly on Welsh country roads. I overtook a van at one point and nearly ended up side swiping it. The steering constantly needs adjusting and at speed it starts to turn into an oversteer, understeer situation.

On a motorway it’s a bit better but still requires continuous driver correction to keep it straight.

I am not happy with that steering at all.

Before anyone decides I must have twitchy hands or I am not a very good driver, or only used to driving a few modern vehicles, think again. Without details I am a very safe and experienced driver and well used to driving vehicles at speed. The actual handling even with KO2 tyres doesn’t worry me, but that steering makes me as nervous as hell.

The only steering I have experienced as bad is ancient Landrovers, which I would never attempt to drive at the speeds the Ineos should be capable of.

Hopefully lowering tyre pressures will help, if not I will wait and unhappily pay an aftermarket company to be able to supply me with a steering solution that is safe.

FYI - I am talking about overtakes on some not so wide roads at 60mph

Yes, I agree with you. I feel the same. My old Disco 2 with 350k on the speedometer drives much smoother. I don't have to correct at all on a straight road.

 

[Cheshire cat]

I am going to to drop my tyre pressures as suggested here.

Why - that bloody steering is quite frankly dangerous at speed. I have just done 125 miles mainly on Welsh country roads. I overtook a van at one point and nearly ended up side swiping it. The steering constantly needs adjusting and at speed it starts to turn into an oversteer, understeer situation.

On a motorway it’s a bit better but still requires continuous driver correction to keep it straight.

I am not happy with that steering at all.

Before anyone decides I must have twitchy hands or I am not a very good driver, or only used to driving a few modern vehicles, think again. Without details I am a very safe and experienced driver and well used to driving vehicles at speed. The actual handling even with KO2 tyres doesn’t worry me, but that steering makes me as nervous as hell.

The only steering I have experienced as bad is ancient Landrovers, which I would never attempt to drive at the speeds the Ineos should be capable of.

Hopefully lowering tyre pressures will help, if not I will wait and unhappily pay an aftermarket company to be able to supply me with a steering solution that is safe.

FYI - I am talking about overtakes on some not so wide roads at 60mph

Sounds like something definitely wrong with your steering. On this forum, very little comment other than it feeling a little different or faintly vague. My experience is extremely positive. Tyres (KO2 17”) all at 37 psi. Yours definitely needs some checking out. I live near Chester. If you want to compare and you are in North Wales / Cheshire, let me know.

 

[DaBull]

Sounds like something definitely wrong with your steering. On this forum, very little comment other than it feeling a little different or faintly vague. My experience is extremely positive. Tyres (KO2 17”) all at 37 psi. Yours definitely needs some checking out. I live near Chester. If you want to compare and you are in North Wales / Cheshire, let me know.

I came across this Exact Centering Stabilizer that returns the wheels to center. This might be something to consider for those that don't like the play on asphalt when going straight. I reached out to them to see if they would support the Grenadier and make custom brackets to fit it like they do for many of the jeeps. Here's a link to the product. DaBull
https://www.roadmasterinc.com/products/rss/exactcenter.php

 

[AnD3rew]

I came across this Exact Centering Stabilizer that returns the wheels to center. This might be something to consider for those that don't like the play on asphalt when going straight. I reached out to them to see if they would support the Grenadier and make custom brackets to fit it like they do for many of the jeeps. Here's a link to the product. DaBull
https://www.roadmasterinc.com/products/rss/exactcenter.php

There are other ruturn to centre (rtc) steering dampers out there, but like this one, they tend to have a spring on the outside which I suspect will be difficult to fit to the location on the IG particularly on the RHD one, and may be too vulnerable in that position even if it fits.

 

[DaBull]

There are other ruturn to centre (rtc) steering dampers out there, but like this one, they tend to have a spring on the outside which I suspect will be difficult to fit to the location on the IG particularly on the RHD one, and may be too vulnerable in that position even if it fits.

Hi AnD3rew, I don't believe this Exact Centering Stabilizer has any external springs like many others, although I am not 100% sure as there is a boot cover that might have springs underneath it. This one by Road Master Inc does work differently than most others on the market and is patented too. Looks like it might be ideal for the Grenadier
for those looking for direct return to center driving on asphalt. A bit costly at $400 plus a bracket. As mentioned I reached out to them to see if they would support the Grenadier and if I hear back will report it to the forum. DaBull.
Here's a link to it again.
https://www.roadmasterinc.com/products/rss/exactcenter.php

 

[AnD3rew]

Hi AnD3rew, I don't believe this Exact Centering Stabilizer has any external springs like many others, although I am not 100% sure as there is a boot cover that might have springs underneath it. This one by Road Master Inc does work differently than most others on the market and is patented too. Looks like it might be ideal for the Grenadier
for those looking for direct return to center driving on asphalt. A bit costly at $400 plus a bracket. As mentioned I reached out to them to see if they would support the Grenadier and if I hear back will report it to the forum. DaBull.
Here's a link to it again.
https://www.roadmasterinc.com/products/rss/exactcenter.php

Look forward to seeing what they say.