Software update

[Cheshire cat]

Not what JLR did with investment in the new then cancelled Jag; nor Dyson with his electric car.

These figures are not big when it comes to automotive investment.

Possibly not. Glad this project wasn't abandoned though.

 

[MarkH]

Knowing what you know now, would you buy. it again?

Probably, but not at the new pricing, I got in after the first bump so paid AU$13k more than the early adopters, that would now be around $27k.
When I read some comments here I filter them somewhat based on whether they're early adopters or not. I personally would not be as sensitive to some of the issues if I'd paid $13k less. That's a good chunk of money to fix things aftermarket if need be.
I'm still waiting to sign the contract so can still cancel but unlikely to as there's really no alternative out there that will suit the task I want it for.

 

[Mussels]

Probably, but not at the new pricing, I got in after the first bump so paid AU$13k more than the early adopters, that would now be around $27k.
When I read some comments here I filter them somewhat based on whether they're early adopters or not. I personally would not be as sensitive to some of the issues if I'd paid $13k less. That's a good chunk of money to fix things aftermarket if need be.
I'm still waiting to sign the contract so can still cancel but unlikely to as there's really no alternative out there that will suit the task I want it for.

Hi Mark, I think the vast majority of UK owners are early adopters. I think the comments on today’s posts here demonstrate that most of us are happy and take the niggles in our stride.

 

[DaveB]

Probably, but not at the new pricing, I got in after the first bump so paid AU$13k more than the early adopters, that would now be around $27k.
When I read some comments here I filter them somewhat based on whether they're early adopters or not. I personally would not be as sensitive to some of the issues if I'd paid $13k less. That's a good chunk of money to fix things aftermarket if need be.
I'm still waiting to sign the contract so can still cancel but unlikely to as there's really no alternative out there that will suit the task I want it for.

My early order is AUD$121K (Fieldmaster base) and that would now cost AUD$143K and would have to be Utility or Trialmaster based.
AUD$121K was a stretch for me to justify so I would be out if had to order now.

 

[MarkH]

Hi Mark, I think the vast majority of UK owners are early adopters. I think the comments on today’s posts here demonstrate that most of us are happy and take the niggles in our stride.

Yes that's my point, they're early adopters so might see things more through rose coloured glasses, but there are also some who are clearly not happy and might be biting their tongue to keep the peace on here. And not every member posts of course, lots of lurkers and some might be afraid to say they they're thinking. Ineos needs to know the current status quo is not acceptable and to get off their rear end and COMMUNICATE.

 

[AnD3rew]

My early order is AUD$121K (Fieldmaster base) and that would now cost AUD$143K and would have to be Utility or Trialmaster based.
AUD$121K was a stretch for me to justify so I would be out if had to order now.

Well you say that, and I did the same, mine $127k would now be about $150k but at the time we ordered we were assuming LCT which would have made mine around $147k it’s easy to forget now, but we did sign up to potentially those prices, was always hopeful they might get the exemption but it wasn’t a fait accompli

 

[DaveB]

Well you say that, and I did the same, mine $127k would now be about $150k but at the time we ordered we were assuming FBT which would have made mine around $147k it’s easy to forget now, but we did sign up to potentially those prices, was always hopeful they might get the exemption but it wasn’t a fait accompli

No
I signed up as soon as the FBT was dropped
Mine was AUD$133K with FBT and it was too much.

 

[Greg]

Well you say that, and I did the same, mine $127k would now be about $150k but at the time we ordered we were assuming FBT which would have made mine around $147k it’s easy to forget now, but we did sign up to potentially those prices, was always hopeful they might get the exemption but it wasn’t a fait accompli

Same here, if the Luxury Car Tax still applied i would be driving a Perentie now and spending about half my Grenadier money on trying to make it bearable to drive on a daily basis.

 

[DCPU]

Same here, if the Luxury Car Tax still applied i would be driving a Perentie now and spending about half my Grenadier money on trying to make it bearable to drive on a daily basis.

Yes, but spending that money would just be a different kind of fun.

 

[Trialmaster]

Underlying current is the same. Elation and disappointment.

We all are pleased with the vehicle, but shocked at the lack of transparency regarding the faults the vehicle has. Which to be fair in my case are minor, but just tell me when I can expect a fix and stick by it. If this information was forthcoming its 10/10, but if not 1/10.

That is how I feel, if it makes more sense @Cheshire cat

 

[rovie]

Yes that's my point, they're early adopters so might see things more through rose coloured glasses, but there are also some who are clearly not happy and might be biting their tongue to keep the peace on here. And not every member posts of course, lots of lurkers and some might be afraid to say they they're thinking. Ineos needs to know the current status quo is not acceptable and to get of their rear end and COMMUNICATE.

Hi @MarkH, I agree with you completely. I am an early adopter. My vehicle is the first to be delivered to a dealer in Germany. That was in January.
I still stand by my position not to talk things up or down, but to present things relasitically.
Yes, I would buy the vehicle again, even if some things really annoy me. And here I like to repeat my statement: there are things that happen with new product launches. But there are also some things that are pure sloppiness in production!
I stand by my statement to INEOS that I am happy to contribute to improving Grenadier with my feedback. My dealer and INEOS regularly receive feedback on things that are not right from my point of view.
I keep repeating the comment about poor communication from INEOS. I have spoken to the managers responsible for Germany and Europe and hope that something will be done within INEOS.
And I also referred to this forum (INEOS also reads here). It is important that they perceive us as customers and realise that it is also important to convince future potential buyers. This can only be done by proactively making improvements and improvements.

In summary: I am very satisfied with the Grenadier. It's a lot of fun to drive. Since a few weeks and meanwhile 6000 km I have no more error messages.
Some things I just accept, even if it is difficult for me with my correct attitude.
And believe me, I don't go to the trouble of disassembling and repairing the vehicle myself over and over again, just for fun. Far be it from me to make this a challenge for @Jean Mercier , @DCPU and everyone else. Like those, I just want to contribute so that you can all benefit from our experience and know where the right "nipples" (clips) are.

 

[DCPU]

I stand by my statement to INEOS that I am happy to contribute to improving Grenadier with my feedback. My dealer and INEOS regularly receive feedback on things that are not right from my point of view.

Do you get any feedback?

I keep repeating the comment about poor communication from INEOS. I have spoken to the managers responsible for Germany and Europe and hope that something will be done within INEOS.

Do you have the sense that this is recognised as an "issue" they want to address; or rather the new way they want to conduct themselves, perhaps viewing the communications and videos in the Mark Tennant era as mistakes?

 

[ECrider]

Hi @MarkH, I agree with you completely. I am an early adapter. My vehicle is the first to be delivered to a dealer in Germany. That was in January.
I still stand by my position not to talk things up or down, but to present things relasitically.
Yes, I would buy the vehicle again, even if some things really annoy me. And here I like to repeat my statement: there are things that happen with new product launches. But there are also some things that are pure sloppiness in production!
I stand by my statement to INEOS that I am happy to contribute to improving Grenadier with my feedback. My dealer and INEOS regularly receive feedback on things that are not right from my point of view.
I keep repeating the comment about poor communication from INEOS. I have spoken to the managers responsible for Germany and Europe and hope that something will be done within INEOS.
And I also referred to this forum (INEOS also reads here). It is important that they perceive us as customers and realise that it is also important to convince future potential buyers. This can only be done by proactively making improvements and improvements.

In summary: I am very satisfied with the Grenadier. It's a lot of fun to drive. Since a few weeks and meanwhile 6000 km I have no more error messages.
Some things I just accept, even if it is difficult for me with my correct attitude.
And believe me, I don't go to the trouble of disassembling and repairing the vehicle myself over and over again, just for fun. Far be it from me to make this a challenge for @Jean Mercier , @DCPU and everyone else. Like those, I just want to contribute so that you can all benefit from our experience and know where the right "nipples" (clips) are.

Well said.

p.s the right nipples are located within reach of the left ones.

 

[Jean Mercier]

... early adopters so might see things more through rose coloured glasses, ... Ineos needs to know the current status quo is not acceptable and to get off their rear end and COMMUNICATE.

First part, the "rose glasses": yes I have to admit this is my dream car, but doesn't mean I don't show my dissatisfaction.
Second part: lack of communication from Ineos (and in my case also my dealer Hedin in Belgium): this is a shame.

Everybody asking me about my car, can see the big smile on my face when I explain "what it is".
But ... I tell everybody about the early problems and the lack of responsiveness of Hedin and Ineos: only for these reasons some people will not buy the car.

 

[rovie]

Do you get any feedback?

Do you have the sense that this is recognised as an "issue" they want to address; or rather the new way they want to conduct themselves, perhaps viewing the communications and videos in the Mark Tennant era as mistakes?

Do you get any feedback?

Do you have the sense that this is recognised as an "issue" they want to address; or rather the new way they want to conduct themselves, perhaps viewing the communications and videos in the Mark Tennant era as mistakes?

Yes, some things were already known to Ineos, others were surprising even for the trader. They learn things from me that they partly did not know in this form.
For example, different wiring or once, after starting the vehicle, I received a message in light blue lettering: "Ihr Fahrzeug ist fahrbereit!" (Your vehicle is roadworthy!). This only occurred once. Like all findings, I documented it by photo. In this case, I am glad about the report! Other vehicles at the dealer have never had this message.

Yes, I really have that feeling. It also sounds convincing to me. I have also received a lot of agreement. But you still have to keep in mind that it is a big company. I don't dare to judge to what extent opinions and decisions are shared within the company. I have received honest statements which I can well understand, which make me think, but which I cannot make public here and which above all do not allow any conclusions to be drawn about individuals.
Fair and honest dealings, especially with INEOS, are important to me. I want to help with my information (and get confirmation again and again that it is useful), but I also expect it to help us Grenadier drivers.
I can imagine that INEOS didn't expect us Grenadier drivers to take the vehicle apart like this, make improvements and conversions and design it according to our own needs, even though they wrote it over and over again in their first press releases.
We are a community with a lot of knowledge, and I appreciate that very much.
I am convinced that it will be worthwhile for INEOS if they nominate one or two people to publicly discuss topics with us here in the forum, e.g. in special threads. The condition for all of us would be that we address things objectively there and also only have meaningful discussions. But that could be difficult with the number of people.
It would be worth a try.

So INEOS guys, think about it. Maybe it will actually be a win-win situation for both of us!

 

[ECrider]

We could do with a euro version of the ozzie Justin Hocevar. He seemed to have communicated well and no nonsense.

 

[emax]

worthwhile for INEOS if they nominate one or two people to publicly discuss topics with us here in the forum, e.g. in special threads

I like the idea to have some reference partners from INEOS here.

But you're right in that the sheer number of people (and thus characters) might be a problem. It is basically impossible to communicate every single, little problem, at least at the current stage. But if we have the same on our side, namely reference persons, it might work.

So if we find some reasonable members with a sufficient technical background, good communication skills and with the ability to objectively distinguish important things from unimportant ones, this might work.

Organisation wise, we could maintain a list of problems and flaws and make them a simple poll. This could serve as a rough filter and a simple statistic to have an overall picture of the current and most pressing issues at any time.

 

[Cheshire cat]

Underlying current is the same. Elation and disappointment.

We all are pleased with the vehicle, but shocked at the lack of transparency regarding the faults the vehicle has. Which to be fair in my case are minor, but just tell me when I can expect a fix and stick by it. If this information was forthcoming its 10/10, but if not 1/10.

That is how I feel, if it makes more sense @Cheshire cat

Hi Trialmaster
Apologies if I came across in a negative manner. Definitely not intended. I always respect your views and know that you post on here a lot. I do understand that when paying out a large chunk of change, you want things to be right.
As early adopters, we are more prone to these issues despite the million miles of testing. I really do hope that Ineos sort out their communication problems. If they can manage that. Happy days all round.

 

[Shaky]

I will keep my 2 pence worth short and sweet on my thought of Ineos.

I congratulate them on things like handing out free tickets for events where they will be, and some of the events they organise but then again this is advertising.
Where the vehicle is concerned and the way they conduct business as a customer, piss poor. I honestly think I do and would get more support from this forum than I currently get from Ineos themselves.

They are a faceless company and I wonder how many of their agents will be agents in 12 months time. If they were a little company I could sort of understand but they are not, they are part of a multi national network of companies.

After 3 months I am still waiting for my jacket !! Before anyone says, I already know that has nothing to do with the vehicle I purchased but it’s a good demonstration of them not even being able to sort that out correctly.

Where is my software update ??

If it felt like they were really trying to sort stuff out I would be confident.

 

[emax]

Maybe everyone in this company bears the stamp of the egomaniac who started it.

In my perception, nothing is decided there without him. And that's a mistake. I know from a workshop foreman at an INEOS agent how different e.g. BMW is compared to INEOS on warranty issues. At BMW he would just order a gasket and book it as a warranty issue if it was a warranty issue. If the gasket is not on stock, it arrives the next working day, gets installed - and done.

Not so at INEOS. A 'case' must first be opened there. Then it is judged (by INEOS, from a distance!) whether it is a warranty case or not. As if the workshop master were too stupid to be able to judge such penny decisions himself.

But that takes at least a week. By the time the matter is settled, two weeks have passed with the delivery of the parts and all the administrative fuss.

It's a PITA for everybody - and I wouldn't wonder the root cause is the mind of Sir Jim himself.