Sick of waiting

[Eric]

No financial problems. Concerns ref on road performance (where 90% of my driving will be) esp steering. Diff lock problems/criticisms. Poor to no communication ref delays. Poor fuel economy - known when I paid the deposit but more embarrassing lately. Great car to drive off road on stone tracks, not tested on mud. Dealer also not being kept informed. No Grenadier to road drive until May. I’ve paid more for a 4x4 PHEV which has more software to go wrong but it has over air updates so software can update daily. It seems Grenadier has probs with software but it looks like only the dealer can do an update. My alternative 4x4 is also great off road and excellent on road (I’ve tested both). My Grenadier dealer is 75 minutes drive away, my new 4x4 is 5 minutes drive with the option of a cross country walk back home with the dogs if I have to leave the car. So I can’t just pop in to the Grenadier dealer if problems arise between servicing. but can to the other dealer. I would also like to see how post purchase servicing and reliability works out. When I next look to buy an off roader in 7 - 10 years time things will be different. In parts of the world a PHEV is irrelevant but I will do most of my mileage within the battery range or close enough to make a big dent in the mpg. So, sensible for me to change, perhaps not for many others. I’ll miss the Grenadier in many ways though.

The one thing that makes me hold out for my Grenadier, is no other car manufacture can promise an early delivery. In all my 50+ years of motoring the longest I have every had to wait for a new car built to my spec is 12 weeks. Changing times. But at my age I can no longer waste a year waiting for a new car. So having waited so long I'll stick it out.
NB. in this instance the Grenadier agent is the closest I've had a dealer for decades.

 

[trobex]

No financial problems. Concerns ref on road performance (where 90% of my driving will be) esp steering. Diff lock problems/criticisms. Poor to no communication ref delays. Poor fuel economy - known when I paid the deposit but more embarrassing lately. Great car to drive off road on stone tracks, not tested on mud. Dealer also not being kept informed. No Grenadier to road drive until May. I’ve paid more for a 4x4 PHEV which has more software to go wrong but it has over air updates so software can update daily. It seems Grenadier has probs with software but it looks like only the dealer can do an update. My alternative 4x4 is also great off road and excellent on road (I’ve tested both). My Grenadier dealer is 75 minutes drive away, my new 4x4 is 5 minutes drive with the option of a cross country walk back home with the dogs if I have to leave the car. So I can’t just pop in to the Grenadier dealer if problems arise between servicing. but can to the other dealer. I would also like to see how post purchase servicing and reliability works out. When I next look to buy an off roader in 7 - 10 years time things will be different. In parts of the world a PHEV is irrelevant but I will do most of my mileage within the battery range or close enough to make a big dent in the mpg. So, sensible for me to change, perhaps not for many others. I’ll miss the Grenadier in many ways though.

Very legitimate reasons and 100% for you the right choice. Ill just run the gauntlet and hope I made the right choice haha!

 

[DCPU]

Spoiled people! My Grenadier dealer is across the sea and to reach him by car I have to drive for three hours and then embark on a ferry with an eight hour navigation...

I take it you've opted for the home delivery then?

 

[Boston Boy]

Re-design of an existing vehicle is always a fraught process (as confirmed by both Consumer Reports and JD Powers statistics). Design of a brand new vehicle from scratch is even more fraught. Designing a new vehicle from scratch with a brand new company is very much more fraught. That is the reality.
I think many of us on this forum desperately want a modern version of a kind of honest vehicle we used to love and needed, a design approch that has been abandoned by auto manufacturers for sham designs where "competency" was only the coat of fashion paint put on for suburban mall transport.
Based on their design process, the experienced design leads Ratcliffe hired for suspension, body, interior, mechanicals, etc., and for their approach of using existing, proven components rather than attempting to design everything brand new, I believe they will figure things out and we will eventually get the vehicle we have longed for and thought would never again be available. If you reserved a Grenadier in hopes of being the first at your golf club to show it off as a tough guy, then perhaps you should cancel. If you have a real need for an honest vehicle like this, then perhaps you will go the course a bit longer. When I think of what I used to put up with on my first Land Rover, a IIA (Lucas electrics, the fluid leaks, the fiddley bits) some of the complaints on this forum are pretty small beers.

 

[Norb-TX]

Right, I wouldn't be surprised that in a few years, we'll be calling this the Series 1, as hopefully, they'll keep improving as they go along.

 

[Christoph]

Spoiled people! My Grenadier dealer is across the sea and to reach him by car I have to drive for three hours and then embark on a ferry with an eight hour navigation...

I am driving 5-10 minutes and am at my dealer

 

[alvan]

I take it you've opted for the home delivery then?

No, I won't miss the pleasure of the journey!

 

[DaveB]

I am driving 5-10 minutes and am at my dealer

I am 4 hours from my dealer

 

[haigo]

No financial problems. Concerns ref on road performance (where 90% of my driving will be) esp steering. Diff lock problems/criticisms. Poor to no communication ref delays. Poor fuel economy - known when I paid the deposit but more embarrassing lately. Great car to drive off road on stone tracks, not tested on mud. Dealer also not being kept informed. No Grenadier to road drive until May. I’ve paid more for a 4x4 PHEV which has more software to go wrong but it has over air updates so software can update daily. It seems Grenadier has probs with software but it looks like only the dealer can do an update. My alternative 4x4 is also great off road and excellent on road (I’ve tested both). My Grenadier dealer is 75 minutes drive away, my new 4x4 is 5 minutes drive with the option of a cross country walk back home with the dogs if I have to leave the car. So I can’t just pop in to the Grenadier dealer if problems arise between servicing. but can to the other dealer. I would also like to see how post purchase servicing and reliability works out. When I next look to buy an off roader in 7 - 10 years time things will be different. In parts of the world a PHEV is irrelevant but I will do most of my mileage within the battery range or close enough to make a big dent in the mpg. So, sensible for me to change, perhaps not for many others. I’ll miss the Grenadier in many ways though.

Out of curiosity, which alternative did it turn out to be?

 

[dynosoar]

I just tried the online chat.
"I respectfully request information relating to the delivery of my order please."
I may as well not have bothered. No further information about production apart from wait.
Hopeless.
A

 

[Eric]

No, I won't miss the pleasure of the journey!

35 minutes down the motorway, but I can see the sea for 5 minutes if that counts

 

[globalgregors]

Right, I wouldn't be surprised that in a few years, we'll be calling this the Series 1, as hopefully, they'll keep improving as they go along.

Exactly, and it’s idiosnycracies will be celebrated as ‘character’.

 

[Overlandplus]

Well it looks to be all over for me, I had a very disturbing phone call from INEOS Australia regarding my completely incorrect contract ( https://www.theineosforum.com/threa...t-times-in-australia.12411183/post-1333157882)

I spoke with a Trevor Wilson from Ineos Aus, at first he asked me what my issue was ( acting like he didn't know) after explaining the total stuff up of my contract he proceeded to tell me that the only option was to sign the incorrect contract of head to the back of the queue, with priority but no guarantee's. Obviously my reaction was shock and horror, assuming surely I only saw my contract a week ago, there is something that can be done, he assured me that there is nothing that can change the outcome due to the fact the car is set for production and cannot be moved.

After some restrained venting, I asked why the contract could not be updated as advised when we gave the deposit.

He then said there was a policy change and that was all he could say, was anyone given this policy change in writing or did I miss something.

To rub salt into the wound I had contacted Ineos Aus, Customer service, my local dealer to advise on the issue with the contract and the only response I got was

So I had been patiently waiting for something that was never actually possible according to Trevor.

I explained to Trevor, how much time ad effort along with a number of plan changes I have had to make due to the delays and frankly (misinformation given by Ineos themselves ) To this he said to me and I quote "I really should start resetting my expectations and perhaps I shouldn't be part of a start up Auto company because it really doesn't suit me very well"

By this time I have steam coming out of my eyeballs, and for the fifth time in the phone call he just simply said, well I guess if you don't want to take our solution ( back of the line) we will just leave it there then. Some way to part company with someone who signed up for a build slot minutes after opening and paid a deposited instantly with no hesitation, the loyalty is not reciprocal and down right disrespectful.

So this will probably be my last interaction on this forum and the end of my Ineos journey which I have been part of for years, unfortunately unless there is some kind of miracle I can't see myself moving forward with a company which is so untrustworthy and cold blooded with there customers. ( back to the old enemy and buy a 300 series)

 

[globalgregors]

Well it looks to be all over for me, I had a very disturbing phone call from INEOS Australia regarding my completely incorrect contract ( https://www.theineosforum.com/threa...t-times-in-australia.12411183/post-1333157882)

I spoke with a Trevor Wilson from Ineos Aus, at first he asked me what my issue was ( acting like he didn't know) after explaining the total stuff up of my contract he proceeded to tell me that the only option was to sign the incorrect contract of head to the back of the queue, with priority but no guarantee's. Obviously my reaction was shock and horror, assuming surely I only saw my contract a week ago, there is something that can be done, he assured me that there is nothing that can change the outcome due to the fact the car is set for production and cannot be moved.

After some restrained venting, I asked why the contract could not be updated as advised when we gave the deposit.View attachment 7805500
He then said there was a policy change and that was all he could say, was anyone given this policy change in writing or did I miss something.

To rub salt into the wound I had contacted Ineos Aus, Customer service, my local dealer to advise on the issue with the contract and the only response I got was
View attachment 7805501
So I had been patiently waiting for something that was never actually possible according to Trevor.

I explained to Trevor, how much time ad effort along with a number of plan changes I have had to make due to the delays and frankly (misinformation given by Ineos themselves ) To this he said to me and I quote "I really should start resetting my expectations and perhaps I shouldn't be part of a start up Auto company because it really doesn't suit me very well"

By this time I have steam coming out of my eyeballs, and for the fifth time in the phone call he just simply said, well I guess if you don't want to take our solution ( back of the line) we will just leave it there then. Some way to part company with someone who signed up for a build slot minutes after opening and paid a deposited instantly with no hesitation, the loyalty is not reciprocal and down right disrespectful.

So this will probably be my last interaction on this forum and the end of my Ineos journey which I have been part of for years, unfortunately unless there is some kind of miracle I can't see myself moving forward with a company which is so untrustworthy and cold blooded with there customers. ( back to the old enemy and buy a 300 series)

Hugely frustrating but based on @DaveB ’s post below I’d brace yourself for frustration also with Toyota. They appear to basically be warning buyers to expect this outcome when ordering with them. Maybe it’d be a different story with the 300… hoping for the best for you!

INEOS will NOT protect order holders in the US from dealer markups

INEOS will not be doing anything contractually to prevent dealers from marking up your order. INEOS will NOT protect order holders in the US from dealer markups Order...I ordered my Grenadier and then check it for correctness and then received a contract verifying the price and the changes if...

www.theineosforum.com

 

[DaveB]

Hugely frustrating but based on @DaveB ’s post below I’d brace yourself for frustration also with Toyota. They appear to basically be warning buyers to expect this outcome when ordering with them. Maybe it’d be a different story with the 300… hoping for the best for you!

INEOS will NOT protect order holders in the US from dealer markups

INEOS will not be doing anything contractually to prevent dealers from marking up your order. INEOS will NOT protect order holders in the US from dealer markups Order...I ordered my Grenadier and then check it for correctness and then received a contract verifying the price and the changes if...

www.theineosforum.com

The sales guy at Suzuki was even worse.
He said it was 12 months wait, after placing the order & deposit, and we would get charged whatever the market price was at the time of delivery.
If we didn't like it we could cancel and lose our deposit.
He didn't care because he would sell it the same day.

 

[Overlandplus]

Hugely frustrating but based on @DaveB ’s post below I’d brace yourself for frustration also with Toyota. They appear to basically be warning buyers to expect this outcome when ordering with them. Maybe it’d be a different story with the 300… hoping for the best for you!

INEOS will NOT protect order holders in the US from dealer markups

INEOS will not be doing anything contractually to prevent dealers from marking up your order. INEOS will NOT protect order holders in the US from dealer markups Order...I ordered my Grenadier and then check it for correctness and then received a contract verifying the price and the changes if...

www.theineosforum.com

I'll probably be buying on the second hand market, the cost or even the wait is not the main issue, I just think Ineos made the perfect overlander and its now being peddled by incompetence and lemmings, I don't see how anyone can defend their actions, even if it only happens to a few people. any way I hope everything goes well for all the others on here but you have been warned.

 

[Overlandplus]

The sales guy at Suzuki was even worse.
He said it was 12 months wait, after placing the order & deposit, and we would get charged whatever the market price was at the time of delivery.
If we didn't like it we could cancel and lose our deposit.
He didn't care because he would sell it the same day.

yeah but you would at least get the vehicle you ordered.

 

[DenisM]

Well it looks to be all over for me, I had a very disturbing phone call from INEOS Australia regarding my completely incorrect contract ( https://www.theineosforum.com/threa...t-times-in-australia.12411183/post-1333157882)

I spoke with a Trevor Wilson from Ineos Aus, at first he asked me what my issue was ( acting like he didn't know) after explaining the total stuff up of my contract he proceeded to tell me that the only option was to sign the incorrect contract of head to the back of the queue, with priority but no guarantee's. Obviously my reaction was shock and horror, assuming surely I only saw my contract a week ago, there is something that can be done, he assured me that there is nothing that can change the outcome due to the fact the car is set for production and cannot be moved.

After some restrained venting, I asked why the contract could not be updated as advised when we gave the deposit.View attachment 7805500
He then said there was a policy change and that was all he could say, was anyone given this policy change in writing or did I miss something.

To rub salt into the wound I had contacted Ineos Aus, Customer service, my local dealer to advise on the issue with the contract and the only response I got was
View attachment 7805501
So I had been patiently waiting for something that was never actually possible according to Trevor.

I explained to Trevor, how much time ad effort along with a number of plan changes I have had to make due to the delays and frankly (misinformation given by Ineos themselves ) To this he said to me and I quote "I really should start resetting my expectations and perhaps I shouldn't be part of a start up Auto company because it really doesn't suit me very well"

By this time I have steam coming out of my eyeballs, and for the fifth time in the phone call he just simply said, well I guess if you don't want to take our solution ( back of the line) we will just leave it there then. Some way to part company with someone who signed up for a build slot minutes after opening and paid a deposited instantly with no hesitation, the loyalty is not reciprocal and down right disrespectful.

So this will probably be my last interaction on this forum and the end of my Ineos journey which I have been part of for years, unfortunately unless there is some kind of miracle I can't see myself moving forward with a company which is so untrustworthy and cold blooded with there customers. ( back to the old enemy and buy a 300 series)

I'm somewhat "scandalised" by the treatment you've received, given my so far positive interactions with IA and the local agent.
Without going into detail here, are there any changes you absolutely cannot live with in terms of what the contract specifies ? You mentioned the colour, what about engine choice and other utility issues?
I originally ordered the poverty pack "station wagon with 3 diffs" and when the LuxCarTax was waived, upgraded to a no frills Trialmaster. If I'd been "stuck" with my original configuration. then I could live with it. The Trialmaster is a "want" not a basic "need" which was the first choice.
Your disappointment is palpable and I sympathise.... however before "pulling the pin" see what you can salvage and what you might be able to modify post delivery...
Good luck whatever you decide.

 

[Davman]

@Overlandplus - I really do feel for you mate, I don’t think anyone here would be thinking any different if we found ourselves in your situation.
However, you do have the option to get the vehicle you want, just not in the time frames that you originally expected.
For that fact, no one here is getting their vehicle in the time frames that they originally expected.

At the end of the day, Trevor should know better than to annoy customers, he is a senior manager is OZ, however he is also just an individual bloke who is is no doubt having to deal with lots of issues that are well out of his control, and like we get hotheaded, perhaps he may well regret the tone of how he has conveyed some things. None of us get judged by what we say on a phone call to Ineos, so we have to give these individual people a bit of grace I feel.

I have had issues going back many months with INEOS customer service, to do with policy demands and policy changes - just to hit brick wall after brick wall.
However, I contacted INEOS Australia too out of sheer frustration, and my dealings with the team direct have been nothing but refreshing - despite the fact that they too have to work with the policies generated head office that they acknowledge don't always work in Australia's favour.

So perhaps after a few deeper breaths, you can see yourself waiting a few more months to finally get what you have waited all this time for.

 

[Sam]

Sorry to hear about your experiences @Overlandplus - it sounds like even some Ineos staff are becoming jaded and despondent... or at least have no remedies that they can offer to customers in a fix.

I believe Ineos' current radio silence is intentional... a business decision. Which makes me wonder what their silence is preferable to?

Starting to think that all is really not well at IA.