General Service Reset Procedure - Oil Change (currently only possible with dealer level scan tools)

[LWA55DAL]

Hello, do you know which diagnostic device was connected via OBD2?
I have been trying to crack the Ineos system with two IT colleagues via OBD2 for some time. It just takes time...there is a nice forum in Germany where people exchange information about diagnostic devices: https://www.motor-talk.de/forum/on-board-diagnose-b295.html
With Autel, Launch, iCarsoft (my favorite), Vident etc. with the "All vehicle brands software" you can do the standard things, but a service reset is not possible (yet).
After consulting the manufacturers of the diagnostic devices, it is indeed a matter of time before the service reset is also available for a niche vehicle such as the Grenadier.

It was a dedicated laptop with an ODBII plug. I didn’t get the model, but it wasn’t a Toughbook. It looked like any other laptop and he had an INEOS branded software up to do the reset. He did it in about 15-20 seconds. The ONLY quirk was that you can backdate the date of the reset as it sets the day and mileage timer. He asked me the date of the actual oil change that I performed and put that into the system as the next service interval. It was about a month prior to when I had them do the reset so something to consider. My guess is that the software prompts you for manual date of the service vs a simple reset of the system. I have not seen this on prior vehicle and this may be why it is not as simple as just hitting “reset”.

 

[Burki]

It was a dedicated laptop with an ODBII plug. I didn’t get the model, but it wasn’t a Toughbook. It looked like any other laptop and he had an INEOS branded software up to do the reset. He did it in about 15-20 seconds. The ONLY quirk was that you can backdate the date of the reset as it sets the day and mileage timer. He asked me the date of the actual oil change that I performed and put that into the system as the next service interval. It was about a month prior to when I had them do the reset so something to consider. My guess is that the software prompts you for manual date of the service vs a simple reset of the system. I have not seen this on prior vehicle and this may be why it is not as simple as just hitting “reset”.

Yes, it is a laptop with dedicated Ineos software. my experience as well we will crack it

 

[IslandFalconer]

Hello, do you know which diagnostic device was connected via OBD2?
I have been trying to crack the Ineos system with two IT colleagues via OBD2 for some time. It just takes time...there is a nice forum in Germany where people exchange information about diagnostic devices: https://www.motor-talk.de/forum/on-board-diagnose-b295.html
With Autel, Launch, iCarsoft (my favorite), Vident etc. with the "All vehicle brands software" you can do the standard things, but a service reset is not possible (yet).
After consulting the manufacturers of the diagnostic devices, it is indeed a matter of time before the service reset is also available for a niche vehicle such as the Grenadier.

It’s Built on Bosch Grade X, the laptop is running a cloud service.

 

[Burki]

It’s Built on Bosch Grade X, the laptop is running a cloud service.

yepp. absolutely correct. any experiences with grade x? did you try to create a fake account on the cloud server? what is possible in the offline mode without FIN?

Atlic Almir, UX/UI product designer

 

[HereinDaRockies]

yepp. absolutely correct. any experiences with grade x? did you try to create a fake account on the cloud server? what is possible in the offline mode without FIN?

Atlic Almir, UX/UI product designer

Dude you need a dongle(likely some
RaspberryPi type of device) between the vehicle and laptop. Getting access to this Bosch platform’s cloud environment will do nothing. You need a physical connection to the car. The dongle will have additional embedded firmware to communicate with the grenadier’s computer.

Will not be trivial to hack.

 

[Burki]

The dongle will have additional embedded firmware to communicate with the grenadier’s computer

Will not be trivial to hack.

got this already from a belgian ineos dealer

thats the challenge

 

[tnkatoy]

If the vehicle systems are built on a Bosch platform, does that mean Ineos doesn't own them? Kind of like Microsoft owning the operating system that makes Personal Computers work.

If that's the case, then even if Ineos wanted to make owner service updates possible, the third-party owner of the systems may be refusing ... so it looks like we are relying on you Burki !!

 

[samnt650]

got this already from a belgian ineos dealer

thats the challenge

Wondering if that is a generic Bosch ODB2 dongle like from this link >> https://www.boschdiagnostics.com/diagnostic-systems/accessories

 

[parb]

I'm sure it's a hardware key used to ensure license compliance

 

[petergibbons]

I know a bit about these systems used by all the major manufacturers, so thought I'd share.

As most people know, the interface in a car is called OBD2, or more generally, a DLC connector.

The protocol that runs over the connector is called controller area network (CAN bus). There are different modules connected to the CAN bus. Transmission control module (TCM), body control module (BCM), engine control module (ECM), lots more. Many OBD "code readers" are pretty basic and can only communicate with the ECM. For example, if you have a problem with your transmission, your basic code reader will show P0700, which just means that the TCM requested that the malfunction indicator light (MIL, aka Check Engine light) be turned on. To determine the true cause of the issue, you need a code reader that can talk directly to the TCM and ask it for DTCs.

Sometimes there are advanced CAN bus protocols. GM has "HS GMLAN" (high speed CAN bus) and "LS GMLAN" (low speed CAN bus). Other manufacturers sometimes have other CAN buses that are specific to their brands. Sometimes they just run multiple CAN buses for different things. For example, Volkswagon has an infotainment CAN bus.

There is a protocol on newer GMs called Diagnostic-over-IP (DoIP) that is an ethernet network (versus CAN) running Internet Protocol at OSI layer 3, and my understanding is that new features like Super Cruise use DoIP. So it's possible that only a MDI2 would work for communicating over that protocol on GM vehicles. I think there is a CAN bus command that the MDI2 uses to connect to a CAN-to-DoIP gateway, and after connected, the MDI2 can communicate with devices connected to that ethernet network by using ethernet packets.

For many manufacturers, they use Bosch diagnostic software and customize it. General Motors calls their software GDS2. They also have a program called SPS2 that is used to update firmware.

The device that connects your computer to the car's DLC port is known as a J2534 device. Some people call them J boxes.

General Motors uses a J2534 device called a MDI2. You can buy one yourself if you have $800 laying around.
There are MDI2 clones from China that used to work, but the latest versions of GDS2 have blocked them. I think the clones are technically J2534 devices though. This guy on Youtube upgrades software on cars on the side for extra money. He uses a MDI2 clone with no problem (also has info on programming other manufacturers). He also demos GDS2 and SPS2, so you can see what the software user interface looks like.

Ford uses a J2534 device called a Rotunda VCM3. You can buy one for a mere $1800

Bosch makes a J2534 device called the MasterTech II. It's $2076.

Notice that the VCM3, MDI2, and MasterTech II all look similar. I have the MDI2, and I've been able to verify that it was made by Bosch. I'll bet the VCM3 is also made by Bosch.

Honda uses a J2534 device called a Honda Antares Capsule (HAC) . You can buy one for $779.

There is a company called DrewTechnologies that makes a device called a Cardaq 3. Supposedly, that one is made to work with all manufacturers and DrewTech makes a program called J2534 Toolbox which can be used with all cars that support J2534.


Back to software... most major manufacturers will allow you to lease their diagnostic software for a period of time. It isn't cheap.

GM GDS2 is $64 for 3 days, $254 for a month, $644 for a year
Ford FDRS (Ford Diagnostic & Repair System) is $150 for two days, $300 for a month, $900 for a year.

Snapon maintains a list of diagnostic software used by all manufacturers and links to buy a license at

OEM Links

Ineos Grenadier isn't on the list (yet).


Ok, what does that have to do with Grenadier? Well, I'll bet if you could source Grade-X or the official Genadier diagnostic software, that most J2534 devices would work with those programs. There is a guy on YouTube who is using the MasterTech II with Ford's FDRS, so I think these things are mostly interchangeable between manufacturers.


Another thing that is cool on Ford vehicles. Someone wrote a program called Forscan that can change just about anything on the car. Want to permanently disable autostart? It can do that. It can also read diagnostic trouble codes (DTCs) from some modules.


Now that I've provided the basics, hopefully someone else will go dig and figure out if any of this stuff works with a Grenadier. DrewTech's J2534 Toolbox is one to try. If you can get the Bosch branded Grade-X, maybe it can get some info out of the car. Once this is confirmed, maybe someone will be inspired to write a program like Forscan for the Grenadier.

 

[Clark Kent]

I know a bit about these systems used by all the major manufacturers, so thought I'd share.

As most people know, the interface in a car is called OBD2, or more generally, a DLC connector.

The protocol that runs over the connector is called controller area network (CAN bus). There are different modules connected to the CAN bus. Transmission control module (TCM), body control module (BCM), engine control module (ECM), lots more. Many OBD "code readers" are pretty basic and can only communicate with the ECM. For example, if you have a problem with your transmission, your basic code reader will show P0700, which just means that the TCM requested that the malfunction indicator light (MIL, aka Check Engine light) be turned on. To determine the true cause of the issue, you need a code reader that can talk directly to the TCM and ask it for DTCs.

Sometimes there are advanced CAN bus protocols. GM has "HS GMLAN" (high speed CAN bus) and "LS GMLAN" (low speed CAN bus). Other manufacturers sometimes have other CAN buses that are specific to their brands. Sometimes they just run multiple CAN buses for different things. For example, Volkswagon has an infotainment CAN bus.

There is a protocol on newer GMs called Diagnostic-over-IP (DoIP) that is an ethernet network (versus CAN) running Internet Protocol at OSI layer 3, and my understanding is that new features like Super Cruise use DoIP. So it's possible that only a MDI2 would work for communicating over that protocol on GM vehicles. I think there is a CAN bus command that the MDI2 uses to connect to a CAN-to-DoIP gateway, and after connected, the MDI2 can communicate with devices connected to that ethernet network by using ethernet packets.

For many manufacturers, they use Bosch diagnostic software and customize it. General Motors calls their software GDS2. They also have a program called SPS2 that is used to update firmware.

The device that connects your computer to the car's DLC port is known as a J2534 device. Some people call them J boxes.

General Motors uses a J2534 device called a MDI2. You can buy one yourself if you have $800 laying around.
There are MDI2 clones from China that used to work, but the latest versions of GDS2 have blocked them. I think the clones are technically J2534 devices though. This guy on Youtube upgrades software on cars on the side for extra money. He uses a MDI2 clone with no problem (also has info on programming other manufacturers). He also demos GDS2 and SPS2, so you can see what the software user interface looks like.

Ford uses a J2534 device called a Rotunda VCM3. You can buy one for a mere $1800

Bosch makes a J2534 device called the MasterTech II. It's $2076.

Notice that the VCM3, MDI2, and MasterTech II all look similar. I have the MDI2, and I've been able to verify that it was made by Bosch. I'll bet the VCM3 is also made by Bosch.

Honda uses a J2534 device called a Honda Antares Capsule (HAC) . You can buy one for $779.

There is a company called DrewTechnologies that makes a device called a Cardaq 3. Supposedly, that one is made to work with all manufacturers and DrewTech makes a program called J2534 Toolbox which can be used with all cars that support J2534.


Back to software... most major manufacturers will allow you to lease their diagnostic software for a period of time. It isn't cheap.

GM GDS2 is $64 for 3 days, $254 for a month, $644 for a year
Ford FDRS (Ford Diagnostic & Repair System) is $150 for two days, $300 for a month, $900 for a year.

Snapon maintains a list of diagnostic software used by all manufacturers and links to buy a license at

OEM Links

Ineos Grenadier isn't on the list (yet).


Ok, what does that have to do with Grenadier? Well, I'll bet if you could source Grade-X or the official Genadier diagnostic software, that most J2534 devices would work with those programs. There is a guy on YouTube who is using the MasterTech II with Ford's FDRS, so I think these things are mostly interchangeable between manufacturers.


Another thing that is cool on Ford vehicles. Someone wrote a program called Forscan that can change just about anything on the car. Want to permanently disable autostart? It can do that. It can also read diagnostic trouble codes (DTCs) from some modules.


Now that I've provided the basics, hopefully someone else will go dig and figure out if any of this stuff works with a Grenadier. DrewTech's J2534 Toolbox is one to try. If you can get the Bosch branded Grade-X, maybe it can get some info out of the car. Once this is confirmed, maybe someone will be inspired to write a program like Forscan for the Grenadier.

Very informative. Thank you Peter.

 

[Tom D]

I think the reluctance on IA’s part to make this easy for the owner is down to their dealership model. Lynne Calder has said that they are sticking with a dealership model rather than a direct to customer sale. Setting up a dealership is expensive and in order to persuade them to take the plunge I suspect IA is making sure that the dealers will get plenty of service work.
If full diagnostics were readily available you could take your truck to a local garage who would likely be much cheaper. The dealers would hate that and so IA has deliberately made sure that you can’t. IA wants more dealers and to get them they have to keep them sweet.