New Defender vs Ineos Grenadier

[DesertGecko]

l don't know if the tax advantages from buying a Commercial Vehicle are the same where you are?
lf so it's good news for the Grenadier.

LR discontinued the 2.0 quite quickly in the U.K.

I'm not sure if anyone actually buys the base model defender here. If you take no other options other than the diesel the price goes to 118k and you loose the potential of coils springs. Total stupidity.

 

[DaveB]

I'm not sure if anyone actually buys the base model defender here. If you take no other options other than the diesel the price goes to 118k and you loose the potential of coils springs. Total stupidity.

I looked at base models from BMW, MB and LR and they all said they don't import them.

 

[Krabby]

I looked at base models from BMW, MB and LR and they all said they don't import them.

It's been like that here for a long time, which is why I was so surprised that IA is offering the "plain" station wagon and not just the TM & FM trims.

 

[lightning]

l guess the Grenadier being a Utility/expedition vehicle it's different, and lneos may think people would want a "Utility" version.
lt would be the one l would choose for my needs, l don't need leather seats and fancy interiors. And posh alloys would just draw unwanted attention in some of the places l need to park it.

 

[DCPU]

l guess the Grenadier being a Utility/expedition vehicle it's different, and lneos may think people would want a "Utility" version.
lt would be the one l would choose for my needs, l don't need leather seats and fancy interiors. And posh alloys would just draw unwanted attention in some of the places l need to park it.

So why make the Smooth Pack compulsory with things like puddle lights? Also robs of a more headline grabbing lower starting price?

 

[ADVAW8S]

I will toss in my 2 cents as a New Defender owner. I'm selling the Defender and proceeds will be put towards the Grenadier. I have had Defender for close 3 years and Grenadier is levels above it IMO. Yea you don't get all the tech but again you don't get all the headaches.

 

[curb-optional]

I too am looking at the new Defender, although I've come to realize the Post Thread "Defender vs. Grenadier" could be a bit off target. It may turn out to be two totally different shoppers. To compete with Defender, IG may need another trim level: luxury on the inside, yet still retain durable parts underneath - that was precisely the LC model, which seemed to do well enough in the US. The new Defender is lux on the inside, handles very easily, and yet is still capable in a variety of situations. There is nothing about the inside of the new Defender that you can check with a Wrangler. As a Defender shopper, I'm not looking at Bronco or Wrangler, which is why I chuckled at the post thread. If it said "110 Defender vs. Wrangler Rubicon," the differences are so big they are not the same buyer!! Who would realistically compare them as purchase alternatives?? A wrangler has no functional load-bearing roof, it's a music festival at highway speeds, the cabin space is exceptionally limited, and the trunk space is taken up by roll bars. It's all terrific if your sole criteria is off-road monster, which Bronco and Wrangle do exceptional. But if you have more than that one narrow consideration, plus stuff to pack and people to transport, a Wrangler/Bronco option doesn't make the starting line. You can't compare the full size Range Rover with the tiny Evoke.... If IG doesn't get more LC like, it won't be an alternative to a family oriented SUV. caption obvious: Jeep is trying to reach the "non wrangler" shopper with their new Wagoneer... Their Grand Wagoneer is super lux and it's huge. I wouldn't compare a Defender to a wrangler, because my needs are mostly luxury and fairly large suv that can handle off road and be durable, and wranglers, as capable as they are, don't have interior space the way a defender does. A wrangler can climb a mountain - but it can't put your in-laws with luggage comfortably in the back seat for an hour long drive to the airport! It's just two totally different shoppers.... think IG will go more upscale for some of the market LC abandoned? Wagoneer is clearly already on it, as their Grand Wag. is amazing on the inside.

 

[ADVAW8S]

I too am looking at the new Defender, although I've come to realize the Post Thread "Defender vs. Grenadier" could be a bit off target. It may turn out to be two totally different shoppers. To compete with Defender, IG may need another trim level: luxury on the inside, yet still retain durable parts underneath - that was precisely the LC model, which seemed to do well enough in the US. The new Defender is lux on the inside, handles very easily, and yet is still capable in a variety of situations. There is nothing about the inside of the new Defender that you can check with a Wrangler. As a Defender shopper, I'm not looking at Bronco or Wrangler, which is why I chuckled at the post thread. If it said "110 Defender vs. Wrangler Rubicon," the differences are so big they are not the same buyer!! Who would realistically compare them as purchase alternatives?? A wrangler has no functional load-bearing roof, it's a music festival at highway speeds, the cabin space is exceptionally limited, and the trunk space is taken up by roll bars. It's all terrific if your sole criteria is off-road monster, which Bronco and Wrangle do exceptional. But if you have more than that one narrow consideration, plus stuff to pack and people to transport, a Wrangler/Bronco option doesn't make the starting line. You can't compare the full size Range Rover with the tiny Evoke.... If IG doesn't get more LC like, it won't be an alternative to a family oriented SUV. caption obvious: Jeep is trying to reach the "non wrangler" shopper with their new Wagoneer... Their Grand Wagoneer is super lux and it's huge. I wouldn't compare a Defender to a wrangler, because my needs are mostly luxury and fairly large suv that can handle off road and be durable, and wranglers, as capable as they are, don't have interior space the way a defender does. A wrangler can climb a mountain - but it can't put your in-laws with luggage comfortably in the back seat for an hour long drive to the airport! It's just two totally different shoppers.... think IG will go more upscale for some of the market LC abandoned? Wagoneer is clearly already on it, as their Grand Wag. is amazing on the inside.

Here is a tidbit, you can't get five adults in the back of the Defender110 for an hour long ride and them being happy. What about the third row. The third row is for any kid under the age of 8. And if your going to the airport and use the third row, you might as well tell them to buy clothes at their destination since you wont have a trunk. Well I will buy the 130. Okay do that and remember that put you in the 110k space when you kit it out with all the luxury and off road spec. I have the 110 and we had to buy a ytukon xl for family trips.

 

[Spjnr]

Here is a tidbit, you can't get five adults in the back of the Defender110 for an hour long ride and them being happy. What about the third row. The third row is for any kid under the age of 8. And if your going to the airport and use the third row, you might as well tell them to buy clothes at their destination since you wont have a trunk. Well I will buy the 130. Okay do that and remember that put you in the 110k space when you kit it out with all the luxury and off road spec. I have the 110 and we had to buy a ytukon xl for family trips.

Also the 130 looks like a bad photoshop

 

[lightning]

The 130 is a bit of a beast

The 110 should be good for three in the back, l guess it depends on their size, the Grenadier looks better in that respect.

The love has already started for the Grenadier. Minor issues are seen as "character" and people are falling in love with the vehicle before they finish the first drive home.

l think this is great. The Grenadier is a breath of fresh air, l am sure lneos will sort out the software issues, l think they rushed to release the vehicle before it was quite ready.

 

[stickshifter]

I too am looking at the new Defender, although I've come to realize the Post Thread "Defender vs. Grenadier" could be a bit off target. It may turn out to be two totally different shoppers. To compete with Defender, IG may need another trim level: luxury on the inside, yet still retain durable parts underneath - that was precisely the LC model, which seemed to do well enough in the US. The new Defender is lux on the inside, handles very easily, and yet is still capable in a variety of situations. There is nothing about the inside of the new Defender that you can check with a Wrangler. As a Defender shopper, I'm not looking at Bronco or Wrangler, which is why I chuckled at the post thread. If it said "110 Defender vs. Wrangler Rubicon," the differences are so big they are not the same buyer!! Who would realistically compare them as purchase alternatives?? A wrangler has no functional load-bearing roof, it's a music festival at highway speeds, the cabin space is exceptionally limited, and the trunk space is taken up by roll bars. It's all terrific if your sole criteria is off-road monster, which Bronco and Wrangle do exceptional. But if you have more than that one narrow consideration, plus stuff to pack and people to transport, a Wrangler/Bronco option doesn't make the starting line. You can't compare the full size Range Rover with the tiny Evoke.... If IG doesn't get more LC like, it won't be an alternative to a family oriented SUV. caption obvious: Jeep is trying to reach the "non wrangler" shopper with their new Wagoneer... Their Grand Wagoneer is super lux and it's huge. I wouldn't compare a Defender to a wrangler, because my needs are mostly luxury and fairly large suv that can handle off road and be durable, and wranglers, as capable as they are, don't have interior space the way a defender does. A wrangler can climb a mountain - but it can't put your in-laws with luggage comfortably in the back seat for an hour long drive to the airport! It's just two totally different shoppers.... think IG will go more upscale for some of the market LC abandoned? Wagoneer is clearly already on it, as their Grand Wag. is amazing on the inside.

For what its worth, the 200-series only sold about 3,300 units per year.

200-series sales in the United States (Source: Good Car Bad Car)

2017	3,100
2018	3,235
2019	3,536
2020	3,146
2021	3,711

 

[Sam]

I too am looking at the new Defender, although I've come to realize the Post Thread "Defender vs. Grenadier" could be a bit off target. It may turn out to be two totally different shoppers. To compete with Defender, IG may need another trim level: luxury on the inside, yet still retain durable parts underneath - that was precisely the LC model, which seemed to do well enough in the US. The new Defender is lux on the inside, handles very easily, and yet is still capable in a variety of situations. There is nothing about the inside of the new Defender that you can check with a Wrangler. As a Defender shopper, I'm not looking at Bronco or Wrangler, which is why I chuckled at the post thread. If it said "110 Defender vs. Wrangler Rubicon," the differences are so big they are not the same buyer!! Who would realistically compare them as purchase alternatives?? A wrangler has no functional load-bearing roof, it's a music festival at highway speeds, the cabin space is exceptionally limited, and the trunk space is taken up by roll bars. It's all terrific if your sole criteria is off-road monster, which Bronco and Wrangle do exceptional. But if you have more than that one narrow consideration, plus stuff to pack and people to transport, a Wrangler/Bronco option doesn't make the starting line. You can't compare the full size Range Rover with the tiny Evoke.... If IG doesn't get more LC like, it won't be an alternative to a family oriented SUV. caption obvious: Jeep is trying to reach the "non wrangler" shopper with their new Wagoneer... Their Grand Wagoneer is super lux and it's huge. I wouldn't compare a Defender to a wrangler, because my needs are mostly luxury and fairly large suv that can handle off road and be durable, and wranglers, as capable as they are, don't have interior space the way a defender does. A wrangler can climb a mountain - but it can't put your in-laws with luggage comfortably in the back seat for an hour long drive to the airport! It's just two totally different shoppers.... think IG will go more upscale for some of the market LC abandoned? Wagoneer is clearly already on it, as their Grand Wag. is amazing on the inside.

I just don't agree with this notion that the Grenadier needs more "luxury" to make it compete with the new defender.

What is "luxury"? Leather and chrome surfaces? These are just theatrical effects. It's the same car underneath.

Have you sat in a grenadier? Do you need a Range Rover?

 

[lightning]

I just don't agree with this notion that the Grenadier needs more "luxury" to make it compete with the new defender.

What is "luxury"? Leather and chrome surfaces? These are just theatrical effects. It's the same car underneath.

Have you sat in a grenadier? Do you need a Range Rover?

l think you are right, the vehicles are appealing to different markets.

 

[@nd]

I fully agree about making a luxury car but not all the configurations Ineos offered are to everyone’s liking, so a little individuality is a good thing weather you are a hard core off roader or it’s your daily driver and want something with a little luxury.

 

[lightning]

lt's a lot more luxury and refinement than the old Defender, while retaining the same look, feel and capabilities

I think lneos have got it pretty much spot on.

 

[grenadierboy]

lt's a lot more luxury and refinement than the old Defender, while retaining the same look, feel and capabilities

I think lneos have got it pretty much spot on.

Then it will be very interesting to see what features INEOS include (and delete) in their more upmarket "lifestyle" version Grenadier expected in 2 or 3 years

 

[lightning]

I've been in a Grenadier and while not as posh as my new Defender it doesn't feel basic or spartan.
lt feels like quality, but utilitarian. l am not sure l love the lack of an instrument pack in front of the driver, but it's just what l am used to and it's not a deal breaker. Sadly l didn't get to drive the vehicle but as soon as l can get a test drive l will look at placing an order.

 

[curb-optional]

Here is a tidbit, you can't get five adults in the back of the Defender110 for an hour long ride and them being happy. What about the third row. The third row is for any kid under the age of 8. And if your going to the airport and use the third row, you might as well tell them to buy clothes at their destination since you wont have a trunk. Well I will buy the 130. Okay do that and remember that put you in the 110k space when you kit it out with all the luxury and off road spec. I have the 110 and we had to buy a ytukon xl for family trips.

Oh no! Not a Yukon! and an XL Yukon. I get it -you think the 110 is tight space. but is that the old 110? the new 110 Defender seems pretty roomy to me... That said, Suburbans and Expeditions are very popular by me, but I don't want that size. The LR4 was also popular, and the new 110 defender seems just a bit bigger than that, but I know full well, it's not a Tahoe. Do you think Grenadier can be daily use SUV?

 

[lightning]

l used a 2005 Defender 110 as a daily driver for 90,000 miles and it was fine, so l have no doubt at all that a Grenadier would be a perfectly good daily driver.

 

[Earthwatcher]

Just had my Grenadier a day and it's parked on the drive next to our six-month old Defender 110. I don't love the Grenadier yet but I'll give it time. No software issues but I can't find anywhere in the handbook how to leave the alarm off when it's locked. You really have to slam the driver's door, suspect it's a poor adjustment as rear door is not so stiff. It's a long way down too for my wife, she's going to need those steps

It is what it is - a heavy, solid, reasonably well appointed workhorse. I've no doubt it will run and run. Will I be taking it to Scotland tomorrow on my fishing trip? I don't think so. I want to get there in comfort and the Defender's ride is something else. Ah, you say but it's going to break down. Well it hasn't done so yet.

Sitting in the Grenadier is like going back in time. The indicator almost echoes and the wipers feel quite retro. The exterior is really solid but the interior is a bit disappointing and plasticky. That of the Defender is really well thought out with lots of storage slots and spaces, while the Grenadier has about as much front
compartment storage as my old Porsche Macan.

The steering isn't a problem, but I don't like it. The foot rest equally isn't an issue so far. But on a long run? Not so sure. No adjustable lumbar support but seats feel reasonably supportive. Rear load space is impressive, better than the Defender with seats up, a real shame the seats don't fold flat. As for that great big bag for the safari windows. What's that all about? Imagine you're on safari in Africa and you've bagged away the windows and a lion comes along, fancying some tinned human. Could be a problem.

For sure, the Grenadier looks the business and it's going to perform well off road. But so does the Defender and I've come to like its looks. It's brilliany designed, is more comfortable, has more poke, and is far more economical than the Grenadier. Not sure how long we'll run them side by side but my wife says she really likes what she calls "the beast". Yup the Grenadier certainly has a presence but I'm chary about the cult that's built up around this machine.