New Defender vs Ineos Grenadier

[evomind]

Lets be real....
Many folks here have NEVER off roaded before in their lives but they bought the Grenadier.
Does that make them an "off roader?"
IDK.
Honestly if I wanted the most capable off roader I would probably buy a 392 Wrangler.
Or a Bronco Raptor.
Or if I want to really burn money a G Wagon.
At least I would have dealer support and an after market for anything else I might need.
Those 3 vehicles at least have been properly R & D'ed, something which I am concluding the Grenadier was not.
Not sure I want to pay Ineos 90k so that I can help them R&D their product.

You can order the Defender with "ok" off road tires and off road package but most dont.
Most folks go for bling.
Is that Land Rovers fault or the market?
Again, IDK.
At least it drives very well.

One thing the 2 British vehicles have in common are problems seemingly ignored by their manufacturers.
I love the Defender specced right but they have too many issues year after year that they could address but they choose not to.
Why should they, people keep buying them and make excuses for their issues/reliability.
Some of us have to work for our money.

I think the Grenadier is a great concept and maybe a great vehicle but I think it needs a little tweaking from Ineos to make it as promised.
Covering up for short comings and buying it anyway leads to another Land Rover product.
Demand better.

 

[Cheshire cat]

I think the Exact Center will fix the Death Wobble. We just need a rig to test fit it.

Hi Roadmaster
Thanks for your polite and comprehensive explanation as to steering issues as experienced by some drivers. I have seen several, well respected reviewers mention the steering vagueness and I have no reason to doubt them.
I on the other hand, with 9000 miles over all manner of British roads, have never experienced any steering issues whatsoever. Admittedly I come from the old Defender world and probably have a wide acceptance regarding steering performance. Only today I was driving in damp conditions, at 60 mph on winding A roads with heavy traffic coming the other way. At no time did I find this alarming. Driving with one hand, outside its legality, is perfectly feasible in most situations.
I know there are those whose experience has been very different but I believe most of these problems can be ironed out with the correct adjustment and possibly bedding in. That said, should you produce something that revolutionises the steering, I would likely be a customer just for the sake of it.

 

[Tom109]

Lets be real....

Ok, I wouldn’t buy a Wrangler, or a Ford, ever. I’m a dyed in the wool LR fan but nothing more modern than my ‘95 RRC, and I am totally comfortable with an online enthusiast community driving feedback to IA. I have driven a fair amount off-road and the Gren is a perfect solution for me. New car company? So what. My Station Wagon has been a solid purchase with no complaints or drivability issues. My dealer and IA has been responsive and recently fixed my only issue, Apple CarPlay.

It’s a great time to buy a 4WD.

 

[DaveB]

Lets be real....
Many folks here have NEVER off roaded before in their lives but they bought the Grenadier.
Does that make them an "off roader?"
IDK.
Honestly if I wanted the most capable off roader I would probably buy a 392 Wrangler.
Or a Bronco Raptor.
Or if I want to really burn money a G Wagon.
At least I would have dealer support and an after market for anything else I might need.
Those 3 vehicles at least have been properly R & D'ed, something which I am concluding the Grenadier was not.
Not sure I want to pay Ineos 90k so that I can help them R&D their product.

You can order the Defender with "ok" off road tires and off road package but most dont.
Most folks go for bling.
Is that Land Rovers fault or the market?
Again, IDK.
At least it drives very well.

One thing the 2 British vehicles have in common are problems seemingly ignored by their manufacturers.
I love the Defender specced right but they have too many issues year after year that they could address but they choose not to.
Why should they, people keep buying them and make excuses for their issues/reliability.
Some of us have to work for our money.

I think the Grenadier is a great concept and maybe a great vehicle but I think it needs a little tweaking from Ineos to make it as promised.
Covering up for short comings and buying it anyway leads to another Land Rover product.
Demand better.

Not sure if either could/should be described as "British"
Landrover Defender is owned by an Indian Car Company and built in Slovakia.

Ineos Grenadier is owned by a British company and some of the design was done in the UK but it is built in France, with most of the engineering design being done by a Canadian company.

 

[evomind]

Not sure if either could/should be described as "British"
Landrover Defender is owned by an Indian Car Company and built in Slovakia.

Ineos Grenadier is owned by a British company and some of the design was done in the UK but it is built in France, with most of the engineering design being done by a Canadian company.

The roots and ethos is def British....
Admittedly a minor point.

 

[globalgregors]

Yeah, could be Grenadier is most similar to the G-Wagen W461/W464 (‘Governmental Business’ variant), which I don’t believe is imported to the US. These aren’t built from the ground up for leisure like those models you mention @evomind .

We drove our Grenadier essentially off the shop floor and across the central desert. 70 series LC could do this yes, but 300 series would make me nervous at 50C/120F ambient temps and Bronco/392 would be very risky due to range/payload limitations.

Ran into a chap at some point who’d done the same with a New Defender so it’s not like it can’t do the thing.

I’d reckon the next Gunter Holtorf might well be in a Grenadier, I doubt a New Defender. Does it matter though?

 

[Actually-Roadmaster Inc]

Or if I want to really burn money a G Wagon.

The fire would be so warm tho... And you'd get a G Wagon. I'd do terrible things to get a G Wagon XD

 

[evomind]

The fire would be so warm tho... And you'd get a G Wagon. I'd do terrible things to get a G Wagon XD

HAHA...Yes...warm it would be and flames to the high heaven.
They're expensive.
I just want Ineos to fix the wonky electronics.
I dont mind that it steers like a solid axle front end because it is.
All the stuff that is inherit to its design is fine by me.
Just make the stuff that is supposed to work right work.

 

[lightning]

The new Defender is certainly Overlanding Capable.
There's quite a lot of owners done serious off road adventures in them, and the vehicles have performed well in this role.

ln reality, none of these new vehicles are repairable in the Wilderness if they break down.

Even the Grenadier has over 40 microprocessors and a BMW engine full of sensors.

If l was properly Overlanding l would definitely take the Grenadier (over a new Defender) but either vehicle would be great.

 

[klarie]

The new Defender is certainly Overlanding Capable.
There's quite a lot of owners done serious off road adventures in them, and the vehicles have performed well in this role.

ln reality, none of these new vehicles are repairable in the Wilderness if they break down.

Even the Grenadier has over 40 microprocessors and a BMW engine full of sensors.

If l was properly Overlanding l would definitely take the Grenadier (over a new Defender) but either vehicle would be great.

The problem ist, Ineos would certainly have avoided the silicone .. but without microprocessors getting the vehicle road certified is impossible nowadays. I have no issues since update and mine was one of the last built w/o lane assist and all this stuff. So initial series. Incredible vehicle.

 

[Jiman01]

The new Defender is certainly Overlanding Capable.
There's quite a lot of owners done serious off road adventures in them, and the vehicles have performed well in this role.

ln reality, none of these new vehicles are repairable in the Wilderness if they break down.

Even the Grenadier has over 40 microprocessors and a BMW engine full of sensors.

If l was properly Overlanding l would definitely take the Grenadier (over a new Defender) but either vehicle would be great.

I agree. I own a ND and have done some day trip off road loops….not rock crawling but more challenging than just fire roads.

With that said, my reasoning for moving to a Grenadier is that I’m not confident that the ND will go 10-15yrs without dumping a significant amount of money into it in the form of repair costs.

 

[lightning]

You could be right. Although there are plenty of 2006 onwards Discovery 3's still running well.

Any modern vehicle will only last as long as the electronics. Rust is unlikely to be the killer, it will be CANBUS or ECU failure that will see the vehicle recycled into drinks cans.