Ineos forced to shut down production on supplier issue

Media starting to break that production of the IG is going to be paused until 2025 due to financial troubles at one of its suppliers.

The UK dealers were just told and mine told me today but I didn't post anything until I saw it starting to appear in the media. I cant see behind the paywall but I wonder if this is recaro?

 

[Zimm]

6500 left, from 9000 built.

My goofy cousin has 2.

 

[chrsbe]

We will find out. Hope you are not right.

 

[Tazzieman]

My goofy cousin has 2.

More fun than cryptocurrency!

 

[LOLIVER]

View attachment 7870685

The rest of the article is paywalled. I'd expect a press release addressing this soon.

Ineos forced to shut down production on supplier issue

Output of the Grenadier and its derivative is being stopped at the off-road vehicle maker's French factory until it can regain access to a key component.

europe.autonews.com

Thanks for the article link mate. I have a paywall reader. Here is the article screenshots

 

[CrazyOldMan]

My goofy cousin has 2.

I saw five in a row driving back from Chicago- one of them was tricked out to look exactly like the one in the movie. They got the “toot” button, and well-deserved.

 

[trobex]

It's a shame because these Recaro seats in the Grenadier are fantastic.
So supportive and comfortable.

You jest. They are the worst seats of any vehicle I have sat in 19 years. But that is my personal take on them!

 

[Zimm]

You jest. They are the worst seats of any vehicle I have sat in 19 years. But that is my personal take on them!

Are you fat, fit or thin? I have a theory, that the more your body has the consistency of dough the more it contours to whatever vessel you plop it in, and the less you give a shit about adjustments.

 

[Zimm]

On the bright side, maybe Ineos will release the manual and programming before it goes tits up!

I know I know, like every shezimm says, my optimism can be draining at times. It's why they leave me.

 

[TerryS]

Expensive projects in the chemical sector, worth several billion euros, combined with the ongoing crisis since early last year, are draining their funds. The nearly 2 billion euros of money transfers made in 2020 and 2021 are likely not feasible right now. Then, there are a few money-losing ventures to keep alive, such as Belstaff.

Sales figures remain low, even though there has been a slight improvement over the past two months. In Germany, we're talking about quantities of around +10 vehicles or so — nothing more. In the UK, things remain poor; only the U.S. market is still performing well.

Then there's talk of opening the Chinese market, but China has absolutely no relationship with this type of vehicle.

In my view, Ineos Automotive is lacking cash flow. Stagnating sales are not bringing in enough money to keep the machinery running. Additional funds are needed, which is currently difficult. Now, having a supplier problem could be both a blessing and a curse: a blessing because they can hide behind this issue, and a curse because it's a real problem that further strains cash flow.

AWo

 

[ForceV4]

yea... like a

Huge sign of the Times. VW are in major trouble, who are threatening to layoff 30,000 in Germany. It is only the start, as cheap China crap is dumped in Europe.

We are all to blame for globalisation and need to be selective of what we buy.

On a positive, I think Ineos will weather the storm, but this is an opportunity to shift the cancelled orders in dealers. On Tuesday in Chandlers, Belton they had 8. One had been there for a very long time (15 months). Three were registered and had just been delivered from an Ineos compound and all at pre-increase prices.

I appreciate your insight here. If I had the money, I’d go down and scoop up another 2024 Grenadier from “off the lot” (we have about 20 in Colorado that were either abandoned orders or dealer allocations). In times like these we see the initial vigor and quality hit with “rational” cut backs in quality to stay alive. If you want one “they way they used to make them”, the time may be now. These ARE the good old days. - Mark

 

[LC0013]

You jest. They are the worst seats of any vehicle I have sat in 19 years. But that is my personal take on them!

You view/opinion of the seats sits you squarely in the minority. I have used the lumbar support in my 200 series LC but have had no need for it in my Grenadier. Yes, I have had more than a few 10+ hour days in it.

 

[LC0013]

Expensive projects in the chemical sector, worth several billion euros, combined with the ongoing crisis since early last year, are draining their funds. The nearly 2 billion euros of money transfers made in 2020 and 2021 are likely not feasible right now. Then, there are a few money-losing ventures to keep alive, such as Belstaff.

Sales figures remain low, even though there has been a slight improvement over the past two months. In Germany, we're talking about quantities of around +10 vehicles or so — nothing more. In the UK, things remain poor; only the U.S. market is still performing well.

Then there's talk of opening the Chinese market, but China has absolutely no relationship with this type of vehicle.

In my view, Ineos Automotive is lacking cash flow. Stagnating sales are not bringing in enough money to keep the machinery running. Additional funds are needed, which is currently difficult. Now, having a supplier problem could be both a blessing and a curse: a blessing because they can hide behind this issue, and a curse because it's a real problem that further strains cash flow.

AWo

If your a Billionaire does cash flow matter? Anyone can speculate however, some audited financials would be more precise.

 

[Trialmaster]

I've installed 4 shelf brackets on the roofrack to support the 200x50mm sleepers I'm transporting over to build a seawall at our shack.
Works well

If you think the production stop further...a downward spiral starts. Stopping the production means also a stop for suppliers. Smaller ones and midsize ones (like Recaro themself) will suffer from that. That could mean a significant or even huge loss of income or even the death of suppliers, if their financial cushion (because of the overall automotive crisis) is already under tension. The may go bankrupt as a consequence or turn away from Ineos. That means Ineos may loose more than one supplier and that is something they will not be able to compensate. I strongly doubt that Ineos has the will and the power to keep all of their suppliers happy by helping them to cross the gap.

AWo

AWo - have you bought a Grenadier? Curious?

 

[Zimm]

If your a Billionaire does cash flow matter? Anyone can speculate however, some audited financials would be more precise.

You do realize, that being a "billionaire" is total wealth of your possessions and assets, not cash right? Elon was worth 4x the over inflated twitter sale price, but needed bank loans and fellow investors to purchase it. If not, he would have needed to divest of 44b in tesla stock, flooding the market and driving tesla stock down, further deflating his wealth.

It's a tough life being a billionaire. I thank my father every day, that I was born good looking instead of rich.

 

[Zimm]

If you think the production stop further...a downward spiral starts. Stopping the production means also a stop for suppliers. Smaller ones and midsize ones (like Recaro themself) will suffer from that. That could mean a significant or even huge loss of income or even the death of suppliers, if their financial cushion (because of the overall automotive crisis) is already under tension. The may go bankrupt as a consequence or turn away from Ineos. That means Ineos may loose more than one supplier and that is something they will not be able to compensate. I strongly doubt that Ineos has the will and the power to keep all of their suppliers happy by helping them to cross the gap.

AWo

The extent depends on how much warehousing of parts they do v JIT manufacture. The thing is, warehousing parts has an expense associated with it, that when compare to keeping the lines moving to fulfill existing and expected orders asap when the seats are available, seems odd. Its seats, and nonpowered ones at that. The last part to be installed. Everything would keep moving. If it really looks like recaro is going to be that far out on delivery, they need to switch seats. Making brackets is simple. The biggest fly I can see is crash testing with the new seats, as they have the airbags. THAT may be a back breaker. Maybe the airbag supplier cut off recaro.

 

[Trialmaster]

UK Pistonheads version: https://www.pistonheads.com/news/general-pistonheads/ineos-production-halted-by-supply-issue/49008

 

[AWo]

You can not throw all the money, JR own's himself, what is in the chemical business, what is in IA, what is in assets, etc. in to one pot. And you can not transfer money between organization just as you like it. There are legal and tax issues related to the kind of organization, maybe the one or other bank has to agree etc. Just because JR owns billions (cash or bound in assets, companies, etc?) doesn't mean Automotive have access to this money and can spend it and spend it right now....if his private money is in the game, why were there at least two known huge money transfers from the chemical business to IA in 2020 and 2021? And why are there "rumors" that Ineos is not paying bills (

There seems to be a lot of theories about Ineos not paying their bills and going broke etc.

) if there is an endless flow of money to Automotive...?

AWo

 

[AWo]

AWo - have you bought a Grenadier? Curious?

No, and I will not do it. As I wrote somewhere else, we considered to buy a Quartermaster but decided to buy a Toyota Hilux instead.

AWo

 

[Stu_Barnes]

“Ineos is keeping schtum about the name of the supplier and the 'critical component', but the setback might not be resolved until early in the new year. Oh dear, oh dear.”

Top Gear

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/electric/uh-oh-ineos-has-paused-production-grenadier

Not sure why they have put it in the electric section. Maybe a Top Gear lurker can fix that…..

 

[AWo]

“Ineos is keeping schtum about the name of the supplier and the 'critical component', but the setback might not be resolved until early in the new year. Oh dear, oh dear.”

Top Gear

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/electric/uh-oh-ineos-has-paused-production-grenadier

Not sure why they have put it in the electric section. Maybe a Top Gear lurker can fix that…..

I really question the 20,000 car sales mentioned in that article. In how many countries the Grenadier is sold? If you consider Germany, the UK, Australia and the US as the biggest markets, you will not reach 15,000 units in this year, assumed the production would continue. Germany saw 1,754 units up to end of August,adding around 40 to 50 units per month. So another 200, ending up with 2.000 at years end. How much ended up in the UK? Let's assume generous 2.000 until end of August (and we know that number is lower). That means all other markets have to absorb 15,000 to 16,000 units? Serious?

I don't buy that number.

BTW: Each and every problem which needs to be fixed by the dealer means lost money for IA. And it seems there are still a lot of fixings necessary, Companies have to put an accruel aside for each vehicle, based on some calculation for that purpose. Money bound for a certain amount of time and which may be lost, if needed. Another question is if the caclulation fits to the money needed to fix problems. If, that's fine. If not, each sold car makes that worse as it sucks more money out as is stored in the accrual.

AWo