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Ineos forced to shut down production on supplier issue

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Media starting to break that production of the IG is going to be paused until 2025 due to financial troubles at one of its suppliers.

The UK dealers were just told and mine told me today but I didn't post anything until I saw it starting to appear in the media. I cant see behind the paywall but I wonder if this is recaro?
 

LC0013

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You do realize, that being a "billionaire" is total wealth of your possessions and assets, not cash right? Elon was worth 4x the over inflated twitter sale price, but needed bank loans and fellow investors to purchase it. If not, he would have needed to divest of 44b in tesla stock, flooding the market and driving tesla stock down, further deflating his wealth.

It's a tough life being a billionaire. I thank my father every day, that I was born good looking instead of rich.

Being a CPA and CFE with over 30 years experience probably makes me more aware of cash flow situations and concerns and Billionaire status than you.

My 20/20 eyesight also makes me question your self opinion of good looks.
 

LC0013

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You can not throw all the money, JR own's himself, what is in the chemical business, what is in IA, what is in assets, etc. in to one pot. And you can not transfer money between organization just as you like it. There are legal and tax issues related to the kind of organization, maybe the one or other bank has to agree etc. Just because JR owns billions (cash or bound in assets, companies, etc?) doesn't mean Automotive have access to this money and can spend it and spend it right now....if his private money is in the game, why were there at least two known huge money transfers from the chemical business to IA in 2020 and 2021? And why are there "rumors" that Ineos is not paying bills (



) if there is an endless flow of money to Automotive...?

AWo
Reminds me of the old saying:

If you owe the bank $500,000 the bank owns you. If you owe the bank a billon or or three you own the bank.

Seriously, legal and tax issues are, generally, easily cleared.
 
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Being a CPA and CFE with over 30 years experience probably makes me more aware of cash flow situations and concerns and Billionaire status than you.

My 20/20 eyesight also makes me question your self opinion of good looks.
Don't take this too harshly, but apparently not, if you think being a billionaire equates to an unlimited amount of cash on hand to toss money at an issue, and no large institution is willy nilly financing a car company, let alone a startup with 6 months inventory onhand, in this automotive atmosphere, no matter who is backing it.
 

LC0013

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Don't take this too harshly, but apparently not, if you think being a billionaire equates to an unlimited amount of cash on hand to toss money at an issue, and no large institution is willy nilly financing a car company, let alone a startup with 6 months inventory onhand, in this automotive atmosphere, no matter who is backing it.
You can take this harshly as I won't mind but, if you think a balance sheet does not matter to a financing institution you are delusional. Other than that your previous statement lacks clarity.

By the way, do you own a Grenadier?
 

Tergosa

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I’m thinking I’m glad I have one of the original Grenadier’s. If they do go to a different or even better seat supplier, I believe that will make our original ones worth more in the future. And in the short term, I think the excess vehicles on the dealer lots will be sold more quickly given the short term exclusivity. They could even raise the prices as this is simply becoming a game of supply and demand, at least in the near future. Then put on top of this at least in the US the potential port strike could further exacerbate the supply. Interesting times.
 

AWo

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Reminds me of the old saying:

If you owe the bank $500,000 the bank owns you. If you owe the bank a billon or or three you own the bank.

Seriously, legal and tax issues are, generally, easily cleared.
I'll buy that...but there are still practical things you can't buy with money and time is the enemy here.

From what I've been watching (and I have the ability to watch it close for various reasons) and as others stated (and they are right) IA is not in a situation where they can easily change suppliers. If a single supplier can stop the production for month, what happens if another breaks away? The relationship between Ineos and its suppliers is already strained. Ineos has not the opportunity to switch between suppliers, at least not in a matter of days or even month.

If a new supplier is found you have to get the contracts right, negotiate the prices (which might involve negotiations with suppliers of the supplier), there will be a design phase, a test phase. You may have to respect licenses, you may loose licenses if a supplier is bankrupt and then you have to start from scratch. Then the material has to be sourced (which involves even more parties who need to be ready) and the material needs to be available. Maybe single parts need to be selected which need to fulfill close specifications, tools have to be manufactured, maybe parts have to be homologated, maybe these parts need to be shipped for production to somewhere in Asia and back again to Hambach (what is already the case for Grenadier parts). The supplier need to have or free up the capacity to produce it (often such things are produced in batches, so there is a delay until all is ready and then you get a limited amount of production time until the next customer is served). If electronic parts are affected homolgation is not enough, a test in the complete vehicle is necessary. And if it becomes really worse you have to perform crash tests again. Other parts (and their tools) may have to be adjusted, if another part is exchanged. Just imagine you have to switch from something round to something square because only the round part is available....that could brake the design and requires new parts around. The more individual parts are used, the worse it gets.

What if something need to be replaced which has an ECU? Owners already facing the nightmare of ECU and software integration.

Of course, all that that must not be the case, if it is a standard part available from many suppliers. Plastic clips, switches, pipes, rims, tyres, interior lights, even seat belts can be easily replaced. But go around your Grenadier and you'll find not so many standard parts. BTW, also the interior texture is not a standard one and linked to a license...also something which must be taken into account.

Take the headlight as an example. They could have choosen a standard 7" headlight. Easy to replace with other types and brands. But they decided to use unique size and a unique design only used in the Grenadier. Ineos owns parts of the development, but not all, as I know from Ineos. If they need to change the supplier, the whole chain of processes I described above has to start again and they have to pay it again. Just because of that single decision of the design department years ago. That was not smart, at least not when you start such an adventure. If they would have taken the 7" headlight they could nearly source it from every producer, taking it as it is or doing some small changes to the design (as long as the light technology is not affected you not even need to homologate it again, if you change only the bezel for example)....And there are more unique parts like this in the Grenadier.

AWo
 
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holdmybeer

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I have a theory, that the more your body has the consistency of dough the more it contours to whatever vessel you plop it in, and the less you give a shit about adjustments.
I would suggest the opposite may also be true... If one has trained musculature including core stability then it is easy to sit in a variety of positions without discomfort.

Comfort is a polarizing topic!
 

AWo

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I have a different perspective on the headlights. It is important to own the design of a part that does so much for the character of the product. You can't afford to go with a standard one.
Absolutely! I agree. However, if you look at other smaller vehicle markets, you see standard size headlights, which have become part of the brand design speech.

As I said, they could have go with a standard size and still have their own design. But if something goes wrong, they can change far more easy.

I think the question is, if you can afford the risk when you start as a new company? Or...are you willing to take it?

Or should you better grow into that direction? Get things settled and resilient first.

Well, that's up to the sponsor of that show to decide, of course.

AWo
 
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Tom109

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You jest. They are the worst seats of any vehicle I have sat in 19 years. But that is my personal take on them!
Are you fat, fit or thin? I have a theory, that the more your body has the consistency of dough the more it contours to whatever vessel you plop it in, and the less you give a shit about adjustments.
I’m 6’4” tall, active cyclist and athletic build. I do love the Grenadier seats - seem to fit me perfectly.
 

AZGrenadier

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My truck has the most comfortable seats I have ever had. Far and away better then the 2 Lexus’s I have have had recently, the 5 series bmw I am currently sitting in, my wife’s jag.
 

Jean Mercier

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Thanks for the article link mate. I have a paywall reader. Here is the article screenshots
I read "Calder declined to name the supplier" ...
She again is showing her, and Ineos Automotive, poor communication skills.

As if the we wouldn't know, as if the whole world are idiots, ... a "trim part" ??? Come on Lynn, be clear and honest!

Why not say "seats" ... she shouldn't even use the Recaro name. Seats aren't a trim part.
 
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I’m 6’4” tall, active cyclist and athletic build. I do love the Grenadier seats - seem to fit me perfectly.
I'm the same height, and it feels concave, like every other seat designed for 5'4-6'0 spines. I notice when I sit in the seats of chubby car owners, they all seam to have the lumber as far in as possible to create a circular shaped seat suitable for a ball.
 
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I have a different perspective on the headlights. It is important to own the design of a part that does so much for the character of the product. You can't afford to go with a standard one.
Except if you design one that looks exactly like a standard 7" headlight, but isn't.
 
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I would suggest the opposite may also be true... If one has trained musculature including core stability then it is easy to sit in a variety of positions without discomfort.

Comfort is a polarizing topic!
Ha! yea, ok. Sell that theory to anyone that has to run around in an ill fitted army pack. Postural fatigue is the lowest effort torture there is.
 

WanderingSniper

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Just my two cents. I got the email. Which I wrote about at the beginning of the thread. The delay bothered me enough that I canceled my 2025 order, found a matching 2024 about 8 hours away and bought it. I do not think I’ll be the only person doing this. It will help current inventory and give them some cash as well.
 
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