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Ineos forced to shut down production on supplier issue

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Media starting to break that production of the IG is going to be paused until 2025 due to financial troubles at one of its suppliers.

The UK dealers were just told and mine told me today but I didn't post anything until I saw it starting to appear in the media. I cant see behind the paywall but I wonder if this is recaro?
 

Mountain4x4

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Hmmm, anyone seen the supplier hick ups for Fords last 4x4 ventures...........Lets see Bronco tops, Raptor Rims and more I cannot remember. All resulting in complete chaos and massive delays. So even Ford has these issues.
 

AZGrenadier

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We don’t even know if it is the seat. We call assume it is but that would be an assumption. It may be the screen, shifter, overhead consule maker, steering wheel. It may be a manufactures that sells the complete trim. I am sure that Ineos will come up with a solution as soon as they can and until the sky actually falls I would suggest we all just keep breathing. Personally I love my truck. I love the seats, don’t love the boings and bongs but even that doesn’t really bug me. Toyota now has a known issue with their 3.5 turbo engines and the tacomas transmissions. Ford has had issues with just about every part of the bronco. We haven’t even had a recall yet, from a brand new British car company, engineered in Austria and Germany with Italian axles, built in France. My guess is they will work around this issue.
 

CrazyOldMan

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One thing I want to raise - in Germany, they have social insurance to cover (temporarily) the majority of salary for employees if a company is forced to go on a short work-order. Isn’t this similar in France? My point is, floating 3-6 months because of this situation isn’t necessarily a cash-flow crisis. If one of you is a labor attorney with experience in France, feel free to chime in.
 

Tazzieman

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I’m 6’4” tall, active cyclist and athletic build. I do love the Grenadier seats - seem to fit me perfectly.
Are you good with kids , like pets and also well travelled? 1000s of foreign women are interested in sitting next to you 😁
Especially if you have cash!
 

LC0013

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One thing I want to raise - in Germany, they have social insurance to cover (temporarily) the majority of salary for employees if a company is forced to go on a short work-order. Isn’t this similar in France? My point is, floating 3-6 months because of this situation isn’t necessarily a cash-flow crisis. If one of you is a labor attorney with experience in France, feel free to chime in.
I was thinking the same line here - perhaps some business interruption or business income insurance that might kick in for this scenario. Perhaps a insurance specialist will chime in. Or an internet search guru.
 

CrazyOldMan

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I was thinking the same line here - perhaps some business interruption or business income insurance that might kick in for this scenario. Perhaps an insurance specialist will chime in. Or an internet search

I was thinking the same line here - perhaps some business interruption or business income insurance that might kick in for this scenario. Perhaps a insurance specialist will chime in. Or an internet search guru.
It’s a standard government program - had to use it before in Germany. Not sure re France.
 

AWo

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Philppe Steyer, boss of Hambach Factory, confirmed in the "Saarbrücker Zeitung" (Saarbruecker Newspaper) that 700 to 800 employees are on short work now and that it is about Recaro.

All seats on stock sre used up on next Monday, Tuesday at the latest.


AWo
 

TerryS

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No, and I will not do it. As I wrote somewhere else, we considered to buy a Quartermaster but decided to buy a Toyota Hilux instead.

AWo

I find it odd that you spend so much time writing long posts here when you don't plan to buy.

You are generally negative, and with your pseudo engineering perspective you really come across as a troll.

Live is short, spend time elsewhere on things you enjoy. We will all be happier. ;)
 

landmannnn

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That’s what I expected- I’m assuming there’s a time limit, same as Germany?
It depends, it might be a suspension of an employment contract or maybe IA are just keeping them employed for the duration.
 
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I find it odd that you spend so much time writing long posts here when you don't plan to buy.

You are generally negative, and with your pseudo engineering perspective you really come across as a troll.

Live is short, spend time elsewhere on things you enjoy. We will all be happier. ;)
Ah oh. Forum snowflake.

He usually has good data. Block him. You'll be happier.
 
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Full pay minus any production bonus and shift pay is the norm.
Full pay for not building cars that are ordered, when it takes them 10min to put in seats once they arrive? They must be closing the cabin up for the duration of the winter.
 

DaveB

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I'll buy that...but there are still practical things you can't buy with money and time is the enemy here.

From what I've been watching (and I have the ability to watch it close for various reasons) and as others stated (and they are right) IA is not in a situation where they can easily change suppliers. If a single supplier can stop the production for month, what happens if another breaks away? The relationship between Ineos and its suppliers is already strained. Ineos has not the opportunity to switch between suppliers, at least not in a matter of days or even month.

If a new supplier is found you have to get the contracts right, negotiate the prices (which might involve negotiations with suppliers of the supplier), there will be a design phase, a test phase. You may have to respect licenses, you may loose licenses if a supplier is bankrupt and then you have to start from scratch. Then the material has to be sourced (which involves even more parties who need to be ready) and the material needs to be available. Maybe single parts need to be selected which need to fulfill close specifications, tools have to be manufactured, maybe parts have to be homologated, maybe these parts need to be shipped for production to somewhere in Asia and back again to Hambach (what is already the case for Grenadier parts). The supplier need to have or free up the capacity to produce it (often such things are produced in batches, so there is a delay until all is ready and then you get a limited amount of production time until the next customer is served). If electronic parts are affected homolgation is not enough, a test in the complete vehicle is necessary. And if it becomes really worse you have to perform crash tests again. Other parts (and their tools) may have to be adjusted, if another part is exchanged. Just imagine you have to switch from something round to something square because only the round part is available....that could brake the design and requires new parts around. The more individual parts are used, the worse it gets.

What if something need to be replaced which has an ECU? Owners already facing the nightmare of ECU and software integration.

Of course, all that that must not be the case, if it is a standard part available from many suppliers. Plastic clips, switches, pipes, rims, tyres, interior lights, even seat belts can be easily replaced. But go around your Grenadier and you'll find not so many standard parts. BTW, also the interior texture is not a standard one and linked to a license...also something which must be taken into account.

Take the headlight as an example. They could have choosen a standard 7" headlight. Easy to replace with other types and brands. But they decided to use unique size and a unique design only used in the Grenadier. Ineos owns parts of the development, but not all, as I know from Ineos. If they need to change the supplier, the whole chain of processes I described above has to start again and they have to pay it again. Just because of that single decision of the design department years ago. That was not smart, at least not when you start such an adventure. If they would have taken the 7" headlight they could nearly source it from every producer, taking it as it is or doing some small changes to the design (as long as the light technology is not affected you not even need to homologate it again, if you change only the bezel for example)....And there are more unique parts like this in the Grenadier.

AWo
You are correct that their profit is down, however they are still making a fairly healthy profit.

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DaveB

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I’m 6’4” tall, active cyclist and athletic build. I do love the Grenadier seats - seem to fit me perfectly.
I am very similar to you.
Almost 5'10" active forum poster and athletic build underneath a lot of camouflage.
I have lost 25kg in the last 12 months so that helps with the seats also. (25kg more to go)
I find the Grenadiers seats extremely comfortable and supportive.
But I also have the firmest bed I could get.
I don't need lumbar support as I learnt from my drill instructor many years ago, Head up, shoulders back, back straight and suck that gut in.
I also wear barefoot shoes or am just barefoot most of the time.

I understand though that some people just have different body structures to others.
 

CrazyOldMan

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It depends, it might be a suspension of an employment contract or maybe IA are just keeping them employed for the duration.
My guess is this (whatever “this” is) is addressed in 3-4 months, so I’m assuming they carry them on their existing contract, and I’m assuming the French government would carry it for that short amount of time
 

DaveB

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After this seat fiasco there will probably be an upgraded seat option available down the road!
I don't really think Ineos can be blamed for Recaro having problems.
In fact I think Ineos is one of their smaller customers.
They supply most of the car manufacturers along with marine, aircraft, office furniture and racing vehicles.
Out of 2,600 employees the German Recaro factory in trouble only employed 425.
Information looks like it was the loss of VW Groups business that has been the main cause of the problem.

 
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