Fuel economy

[Jean Mercier]

I have now driven about 3000 km in the Fieldmaster petrol version, 2000 long distance and about 1000 short distance, my average consumption was 17l/100km.

I have a petrol too: 8000 km and an average of 15.05 l/100km.

 

[Logsplitter]

Yup. A petrol Trialmaster with 2K on the odometer. I drive her gently and once engine, tranny and transfer case are good and well up to temperature I push her a bit so that she doesn’t end up with a lazy engine.

My average consumption is around 12.3. Next month I got a 3K trip over 4 days so I’ll get a better idea how she performs on longer trips. End of the year I have an 11K trip planned over 3 weeks with 5K off road. X fingers

I see your petrol Grenadier is a she . Far too complicated for me that’s why my Grenadier named Liberty is a he

 

[Jean Mercier]

I see your petrol Grenadier is a she . Far too complicated for me that’s why my Grenadier named Liberty is a he

I would call it "it", it's an object after all

 

[RunBikeDive]

I would call it "it", it's an object after all

Jean, Logsplitter,

It's only a matter of time before somebody starts a thread titled:
"What are your Grenadiers' Pronouns"



btw, "Logsplitter", Great Name

 

[DaveB]

I see your petrol Grenadier is a she . Far too complicated for me that’s why my Grenadier named Liberty is a he

I will wait and let mine decide for itself what gender it is.
It may be non-binary or gender fluid.

 

[Krabby]

I will wait and let mine decide for itself what gender it is.
It may be non-binary or gender fluid.

What spec is the gender fluid?

 

[James]

Does anyone else have trouble understanding why bmw/ineos would not set the engine, with all its sensors and ecu, to return best fuel economy/smoothness/torque for towing? I would love to believe that there is a chip I can plug in that would improve those things, but it does seem like magical thinking to imagine that they would fail to use their magnificent engineering resources in a way that a niche company can outstrip. Especially by large percentages.
am i missing something? If it is real, why does the manufacturer not buy the chip, or for that matter the company?
no problem believing you can re-chip it for more power and less economy, but given the importance of consumption/emissions…

 

[DaveB]

Does anyone else have trouble understanding why bmw/ineos would not set the engine, with all its sensors and ecu, to return best fuel economy/smoothness/torque for towing? I would love to believe that there is a chip I can plug in that would improve those things, but it does seem like magical thinking to imagine that they would fail to use their magnificent engineering resources in a way that a niche company can outstrip. Especially by large percentages.
am i missing something? If it is real, why does the manufacturer not buy the chip, or for that matter the company?
no problem believing you can re-chip it for more power and less economy, but given the importance of consumption/emissions…

BMW doesn't supply the ECU
Ineos are shipping the same vehicle to many different countries, with different fuel types/quality available, so have made a compromise.
I think a lot of buyers won't be towing regularly with their Grenadier, I certainly won't be.
As we have seen on here many buyers don't care that much about the best fuel economy, I never run my current vehicle in economy mode, I always put it in sport mode as soon as i start it.

 

[nuclearbeef]

Does anyone else have trouble understanding why bmw/ineos would not set the engine, with all its sensors and ecu, to return best fuel economy/smoothness/torque for towing? I would love to believe that there is a chip I can plug in that would improve those things, but it does seem like magical thinking to imagine that they would fail to use their magnificent engineering resources in a way that a niche company can outstrip. Especially by large percentages.
am i missing something? If it is real, why does the manufacturer not buy the chip, or for that matter the company?
no problem believing you can re-chip it for more power and less economy, but given the importance of consumption/emissions…

My guess would be emissions standards. Specifically NOx in diesels.

I'm not an engineer, but I believe that lean burning and high temperatures cause higher NOx output.
Burning a richer than stoichiometric mixture would reduce NOx at the expense of fuel economy.
Diesels always burn lean if you count total weight of air and fuel, but injection rates and timing of multiple injection events per cycle can change the localized mixture in the cylinder.

Just a guess.

 

[MrMike]

Does anyone else have trouble understanding why bmw/ineos would not set the engine, with all its sensors and ecu, to return best fuel economy/smoothness/torque for towing? I would love to believe that there is a chip I can plug in that would improve those things, but it does seem like magical thinking to imagine that they would fail to use their magnificent engineering resources in a way that a niche company can outstrip. Especially by large percentages.
am i missing something? If it is real, why does the manufacturer not buy the chip, or for that matter the company?
no problem believing you can re-chip it for more power and less economy, but given the importance of consumption/emissions…

There are "rail and boost" chips available

 

[James]

My guess would be emissions standards. Specifically NOx in diesels.

I'm not an engineer, but I believe that lean burning and high temperatures cause higher NOx output.
Burning a richer than stoichiometric mixture would reduce NOx at the expense of fuel economy.
Diesels always burn lean if you count total weight of air and fuel, but injection rates and timing of multiple injection events per cycle can change the localized mixture in the cylinder.

Just a guess.

Interesting, thanks, wouldnt have guessed that.

 

[YellowLab]

Does anyone else have trouble understanding why bmw/ineos would not set the engine, with all its sensors and ecu, to return best fuel economy/smoothness/torque for towing? I would love to believe that there is a chip I can plug in that would improve those things, but it does seem like magical thinking to imagine that they would fail to use their magnificent engineering resources in a way that a niche company can outstrip. Especially by large percentages.
am i missing something? If it is real, why does the manufacturer not buy the chip, or for that matter the company?
no problem believing you can re-chip it for more power and less economy, but given the importance of consumption/emissions…

Agree - the fuel economy is beyond abysmal

 

[Spjnr]

I found that the Grenadiers best economy was on 50mph coastal roads from montenegro to Croatia. Achieved just shy of 30mpg, with muds and a roof tent.

Aero is a big factor with this vehicle, your never going to achieve what a modern sleek suv will. Also the gearing Is low.

 

[bigleonski]

Agree - the fuel economy is beyond abysmal

Pffft - try a landcruiser or patrol.

 

[Miki]

There are "rail and boost" chips available

Agree - the fuel economy is beyond abysmal

Fuel economy

Last night my son and I had a 30km drive to an appointment, my son drove. We rode country roads, some narrow, winding, uphill and downhill, but also four-lane sections, an overall mix. With average traffic in the Odenwald where we live. It was his first ride in the Grenadier and he didn't...

www.theineosforum.com

 

[255/85]

My guess would be emissions standards. Specifically NOx in diesels.

I'm not an engineer, but I believe that lean burning and high temperatures cause higher NOx output.
Burning a richer than stoichiometric mixture would reduce NOx at the expense of fuel economy.
Diesels always burn lean if you count total weight of air and fuel, but injection rates and timing of multiple injection events per cycle can change the localized mixture in the cylinder.

Just a guess.

I had a diesel mechanic once tell me that advancing the timing changed which components of the fuel were burned, that they burned cooler, and produced more power provided enough fuel was delivered. He also said that produced more NOx.

Conversely retarding timing and a leaner burn reduced NOx at the expense of power. This was a few years back and many diesels were mechanically controlled. I doubt it's that simple any more.

 

[emax]

they burned cooler, and produced more power

This is a contradiction to itself. Power is the result of heat production in a thermodynamic system. Less heat production - less performance.

 

[255/85]

This is a contradiction to itself. Power is the result of heat production in a thermodynamic system. Less heat production - less performance.

Yes, that is certainly true. I think the mechanic's assertion was related to burning selective components of diesel fuel (black exhaust smoke being incompletely burned fuel) that produced more power for equal volumes of the various esters. Or equal power for less individual esters burned. Since there's no escaping the heat issue he likely hadn't thought it through.

 

[James]

Agree - the fuel economy is beyond abysmal

…actually I think the fuel economy is good. There’s no way 3 tons of a practical, slab sided wind-grabbing car can set records, but they’ve done very well, without resorting to an underpowered car. Most importantly, if you keep the speed moderate (80-100k) it is very good, if not excellent. Diesel obviously has the edge.
my initial question was more relating to whether a different tune could realistically give both better economy and power/torque, or significantly better economy at all. Some interesting ideas in reply, around combustion byproduct choices.

 

[KDJDGrenadier]

I found that the Grenadiers best economy was on 50mph coastal roads from montenegro to Croatia. Achieved just shy of 30mpg, with muds and a roof tent.

Aero is a big factor with this vehicle, your never going to achieve what a modern sleek suv will. Also the gearing Is low.

I just did a drive on a mix of country roads and urban. 558km using 63litres of diesel. works out to 11.3l/100km. Vehicle is a Diesel Trialmaster with winch, bullbar and side runners.