Front drive shaft broken

[Max]

Front drive shaft broken?​

 

[NQ94]

.....that's really shocking to read about the problems. That's exactly why I've so far decided against a simple lift.

In my opinion, the angle of attack of the front cardan shaft is already too large in the standard state, i.e. a design fault!

Strictly speaking, the front shaft output on the transfer case should be lower in order to have an approximate angle of 0° when stationary. It looks like the ‘axle’ and ‘gearbox’ design departments have not worked well together here and the quality control department has either failed or been ordered to keep quiet! I don't know of any other fast-moving vehicle with the corresponding cardan shaft speeds with such extreme angles in series production. Has anyone ever noticed that the rear cardan shaft has a lateral offset, that is also strange (probably not a problem), but it reinforces my impression that something had to be finished here very quickly , in the sense: (well, whether that's a good thing???)

The drive line requires an angle around 2 to 3 degrees to have a reliable drive shaft. The pinion angle on the front axle will be directly related to pinion bearing lubrication. Too much nose up can cause excessive oil to drain back in some diffs.

Go to Hardy Spicer or Driveline Services they will be in a position to make custom shafts in Australia with the same components without having to import from the US from a middle reseller. Once a made and works ok it will be recorded on a national data base for any branch to make. We have done it for years this way and can also have upgraded slip joints fitted.

Read the terms for warranty carefully. The companies that make the alternate drive shafts will likely offer no warranty if the shaft is operating out of recommended specifications for the components in the assembly and Ineos will void the driveline warranty unless a sanctioned modification.

 

[GrenADV]

You now live in .... West Virginia.

Yeah, unfortunately…it might as well be an extension of western PA hoping to move back to DC metro area in the next year or two - we’ll see if work can comply with that timeline.

 

[CrazyOldMan]

Well, to be frank, the czech pilsner is the best, not a lager. I think Yeungling smells weird. It comes freshly skunked. I drink modello, pacifico, and czechvar.

I’ll call a truce if those are your choices - not
shabby

 

[Shopkeep]

There are three quite serious but distinct issues being discussed here, it would be great if they could be split off into separate topics so we can track what may be an emerging global warranty or design issue for Ineos:
1) Front drive shaft failure on unmodified vehicles where it is clearly a warranty and / or design issue.
2) Front drive shaft boot and / or connection failure on lifted or modified vehicles not warranty related.
3) Some kind of Fargo style US Mid-West vs North-East beer discussion, no design issue to see here.

 

[Zimm]

I’ll call a truce if those are your choices - not
shabby

No disgrace in living to fight another day.

 

[CrazyOldMan]

There are three quite serious but distinct issues being discussed here, it would be great if they could be split off into separate topics so we can track what may be an emerging global warranty or design issue for Ineos:
1) Front drive shaft failure on unmodified vehicles where it is clearly a warranty and / or design issue.
2) Front drive shaft boot and / or connection failure on lifted or modified vehicles not warranty related.
3) Some kind of Fargo style US Mid-West vs North-East beer discussion, no design issue to see here.

Agreed. - if it turns out there is widespread failure on unmodified Grenadiers, they may have a warranty issue. If there is widespread failure on 34’s with a little lift, they have a reputational issue. Not good either way - question is who foots the bill. No comment on the beer. Zimm will always rise to take the bait ;o)

 

[Max]

if it turns out there is widespread failure on unmodified Grenadiers

It would be a recall.

Modifications, not to Ineos spec.

 

[Metricshifter]

It's apparent the Oz lift option is only 40mm, perhaps reducing the risk of trouble compared to thoes in NA. Then again , who knows?

watching it with interest having just had the Eibach 35 mm lift.

 

[255/85]

The pinion angle on the front axle will be directly related to pinion bearing lubrication. Too much nose up can cause excessive oil to drain back in some diffs.

Which *could* introduce some resistance to the operation of the pinion gear shaft but mostly focuses any strain directly at the transfer case CV joint because of its increased operating angle from the suspension lift. That the issues are limited to the rear CV regardless of stock or lifted height makes me think that the problem is more complex than it appears at first glance. Let's also consider the front output shaft seal failures at the transfer case. Why aren't the failures occurring at the front CV/seal roughly half the time?

 

[Zimm]

Let's also consider the front output shaft seal failures at the transfer case. Why aren't the failures occurring at the front CV/seal roughly half the time?

There are upper and lower control arms on the axle. If they don't follow the same radius the pinion may point slightly upward during droop. We are also assuming the angles into the tcase and diff are exactly the same, like one would want on a simple ujoint axle. It's cv's so there are no forces to cancel.

i.e. Has anyone ever let the axle drop and examined what happens?

 

[Zimm]

The drive line requires an angle around 2 to 3 degrees to have a reliable drive shaft. The pinion angle on the front axle will be directly related to pinion bearing lubrication. Too much nose up can cause excessive oil to drain back in some diffs.

hm. Any particular make of axle? I've done this on swb trucks like a lifted fj 40, and never had an issue. It's a common work around for excessive lifts to put a double cardan at the tcase and "cut and turn" the axle so the pinion points directly at it.

 

[Powers]

When I said 2 over the weekend, I included this one. Their post was more a whine about the tow service plan. On Saturday, they posted looking for a shaft.

I came across as just a whiner to you? Bummer, I was trying to look out for other owners so they didn't get scammed on a long tow.
Also, never made a post looking for a driveshaft.

 

[CrazyOldMan]

I came across as just a whiner to you? Bummer, I was trying to look out for other owners so they didn't get scammed on a long tow.
Also, never made a post looking for a driveshaft.

Listen, pal. @Krabby is the Pope, @anand is the Professor, and I am the whiner. Don’t even think about trying to move in on my space.

View: https://youtu.be/olzbQ8NKEn8?si=oNturXkVCdANalIA

 

[parb]

Take is as a badge of honor. I would def be a whiner if I got stuck with that tow bill...

 

[ADVAW8S]

I came across as just a whiner to you? Bummer, I was trying to look out for other owners so they didn't get scammed on a long tow.
Also, never made a post looking for a driveshaft.

My bad man

 

[Barney]

To get back to the seriousness of the situation: (call me a realist ) I made a video with the GoPro installed under the car. The shaft rotates relaxedly forwards and backwards when manoeuvring. This weekend I'm off-road in the Northern Vosges and will film the whole thing again under more extreme conditions. My car has a 2 inch lift. I don't think the shaft is extremely twisted. I'm curious to hear your opinions and hope that Ineos reacts, as I'm going to the Balkans soon. Greetings Barney.
Sorry, I can't upload the video

 

[Logsplitter]

To get back to the seriousness of the situation: (call me a realist ) I made a video with the GoPro installed under the car. The shaft rotates relaxedly forwards and backwards when manoeuvring. This weekend I'm off-road in the Northern Vosges and will film the whole thing again under more extreme conditions. My car has a 2 inch lift. I don't think the shaft is extremely twisted. I'm curious to hear your opinions and hope that Ineos reacts, as I'm going to the Balkans soon. Greetings Barney.
Sorry, I can't upload the video

Hi Barney that seems quite an angle to me. Certainly there isn’t much room for any more angle in the drive shaft relative to the flange mounting.
Enjoy your travels and hope all works out well.

 

[chtucker]

To get back to the seriousness of the situation: (call me a realist ) I made a video with the GoPro installed under the car. The shaft rotates relaxedly forwards and backwards when manoeuvring. This weekend I'm off-road in the Northern Vosges and will film the whole thing again under more extreme conditions. My car has a 2 inch lift. I don't think the shaft is extremely twisted. I'm curious to hear your opinions and hope that Ineos reacts, as I'm going to the Balkans soon. Greetings Barney.
Sorry, I can't upload the video

I would say that is way way out of spec and at an extreme angle for running use. Sure it works when off roading, but not for road use at 100km/hr

 

[Allrad-Oli]

To get back to the seriousness of the situation: (call me a realist ) I made a video with the GoPro installed under the car. The shaft rotates relaxedly forwards and backwards when manoeuvring. This weekend I'm off-road in the Northern Vosges and will film the whole thing again under more extreme conditions. My car has a 2 inch lift. I don't think the shaft is extremely twisted. I'm curious to hear your opinions and hope that Ineos reacts, as I'm going to the Balkans soon. Greetings Barney.
Sorry, I can't upload the video

..also man sieht als "Blinder mit Krückstock", daß dieser Knickwinkel einfach zu viel ist. Die Kugeln im Inneren müssen mit extrem hoher Geschwindigkeit bei jeder Umdrehung in Ihrer Laufbahn hin und her wandern. Wenn ein gewisser Antriebsdruck seitlich dazukommt ist schon die Reibungswärme enorm und damit der thermische Tod des Gummis vorhersehbar. Ich denke es ist ein Problem bei höheren und konstanten Geschwindigkeiten, eher nicht bei langsamen Fahren im Gelände? Interessant wäre eine Wärmebildaufnahme ?