Front drive shaft broken

[Swampy888]

expeditionhq.com.au down under is both a dealer and installs lifts. I wonder what they're seeing.

Eibach Pro Lift Kit - INEOS Grenadier - Expedition HQ

NOW AVAILABLE IN STANDARD, HEAVY DUTY & EXTRA HEAVY DUTY CONFIGURATIONS. Factory ride quality is maintained (Standards springs configuration). Developed […]

expeditionhq.com.au

Eibach 35mm Pro lift kit / King Shocks Internal Res package - INEOS Grenadier - Expedition HQ

Kit includes: 4 x Eibach +35mm springs 4 x King 2.5″ Internal Res Shock Absorbers, rebuildable Fitting available at additional […]

expeditionhq.com.au

Heh there 255/85 - Merry Christmas . Expedition HQ in Qld Australia has done the 35mm (1 inch) Eibach Pro Lift on my Quartermaster in August 2024. I run factory 17" rims and original Ko2 tyres. Hardly a 'big lift' compared to USA standards. My Sydney INEOS dealer promotes and sells a 40mm (1.5 inch) Eibach Lift Kit and the underlying question is this: If INEOS Dealers are promoting and selling Eibach lift kits, are they not also part of the problem if there is an underlying "Drive Shaft / Cardan / CV Boot issue globally that owners aren't aware of?
OR is this now bordering on an Engineering design fault that's close to a recall or "owners Notice"?
My QM is fitted with an alloy frame with canvas (light and easy) and I have an 11mm professionally made drawer system in the back with a 40L (10.5 Gallon) water tank usually half full. Well under the 832kg (1834 lbs) payload.
MY QM driveshaft and rear sway bar failed on 6/12/24. . . driving on a basic pine forest fire trail during a 4WD Basic training course in High Range at 5km/h negotiating the last 'wheel rut' of the day.
I'm waiting on news from the dealer (who promotes and sells Eibach 40mm lift kits) if I'm covered under warranty.
So far I've researched at least 10 driveshaft failures across the globe - . . . "Houston we have a problem"
Just for the record - I love my INEOS Quartermaster and I want INEOS to be a raving success. But these issues need to be addressed especially if they are trying to push the Quartermaster as a Toyota LC79 Series contender.

 

[Tazzieman]

@Swampy888 hi
In response to your post quoting me above , it was another guy (in the 1st post in this thread) who had the failure. He didn't have a lift. He stated a circlip failure.

From what I'm reading , one pssible cause of failure is allowing the shaft to droop (happens to the best of us) when performing the lift. Thus tearing the cv boot and allowing grease out.
I heard also a 35mm lift should be OK (even 40mm).
Seems like we still don't have all the info.
I've held off any potential lifts.

 

[Swampy888]

Merry Christmas everyone across this magnificent world of ours. Wishing everyone a safe a festive season and safe 2025.

I need to be added to the growing list (I've counted at least 10 so far from this 'post' alone) of driveshaft and underbody failures.
My Diesel Quartermaster was one of the first in Australia, taking delivery in May 2024.
I have done 26k (16,200 miles) in it due to my business in sawmills and forestry.
I run the factory supplied 17" steel wheels and KO2 AT tyres.
I love my QM - its a beast.
I have an alloy canopy with canvas built onto the tub to keep the weight low and have a 40L (10.5 gallon) water tank at the headboard which is usually half full most of the time.
Drifta did my drawers and fridge slide. I am well under my payload of 832kg.
In August 2024 I had a 35mm Eibach Pro Lift Kit installed by an INEOS Dealer in Qld who are Expedition 4WD and Big Rig specialists and in my opinion one of the best INEOS dealers in Australia. I had this done in Qld as I was working there plus their price for the 35mm Pro Lift kit was significantly cheaper than that sold by my 'home' dealer in Sydney who promotes and sells the 40mm Eibach lift kits.
I drive on the blacktop (highway and country roads). Very little gravel road work.
On 6 Dec 2024 I attended a Basic 4WD Training Course driving on forestry fire trails which is pretty tame off road driving.
As fate has it, the last wheel rut of the day in HIGH Range at about 5km/h (3miles/hr) I eased into the wheel rut and felt and heard a bang and then some shuddering. Wasn't a pleasant sound especially on a Grenadier. . . was trucked off to my Sydney dealer this week.
Diagnosis is a rear sway bar and front drive shaft failure and my dealer is 'prepping me' that because I've had it lifted it 'may' not be covered under warranty.
I refuse to accept this is not a Warranty Issue given the incident rate is growing and appears to increase around the 20,000km (12,500miles) range.
My thoughts are these from reading at least 10 similar stories across the globe within this post alone.
1. If INEOS is aware at August 2023 there is an underlying Driveshaft issue with Cardan and CV Boot issues why are INEOS Dealers still selling and promoting Eibach Lift Kits? Also seems different Dealers have different opinions on Warranty Claims.
2. IF this is a global issue then is this not a bigger engineering / design issue as pointed out by "Allrad-Oli's" from Deutschland post on 29/8/23 and by the YouTube video by "CrazyOldMan" on 3/6/23 from New Jersey USA on the multi cardan joint solution learned from Jeep issue being similar to INEOS.

For INEOS, it would be in there interest to have this fixed under warranty and 'learn' from my QM given the QM is longer and has a different configuration to the wagon. In Australia, INEOS is hoping to push the QM Cab Chassis as a contender against the Toyota LC79 which is the "King" of 4WD's in Australia.

Especially where a lift kit is a standard practise in Australia.
I'm now waiting on my dealer to tell me what's happening and if it will be repaired under warranty.

INEOS Australia, if you are reading these posts, I recommend using mine as a learning opportunity for your engineers given it's the first QM in Australia and first to fail. And currently I'm still a 'fanboy' of INEOS. Let's use this failure to learn and keep the 'Client Satisfaction Index" at a high 5 out of 5 by accepting this a warranty claim.

 

[C-Mack]

I could see a scenario where IA quietly introduce revised front axle geometries on future models addressing pinion, caster and driveline angles if more stock vehicles have confirmed/verified failures. If those failures on stock vehicles results in accidents or injuries then sure it would become a full blown recall. I would also assume “currently” IA would consider any lift beyond factory supplied OEM springs to be outside of specifications and any failures caused by such modifications (if proven) not to be an inherit design issue.

A question for dealers would be are the aftermarket lift kits they are promoting from Eibach IA approved? Sure they are made by the same brand as the OEM springs but are the aftermarket specifications approved and tested by IA and covered as part of the overall vehicle warranty?

I’m not saying there aren’t improvements which could be made to the front axle by IA to make them more forgiving of suspension lifts. However, I certainly don’t see them redesigning the front axle then calling everyone who has already purchased a vehicle to come get their free revised front axle installed. It would be an amazing customer orientated solution if they did but at this point I’m not seeing that as something we could hope for.

 

[Zimm]

Some of the idiotic Ineos Warranty denials make me wonder if the director in charge was a disciple of United Healthcare, and needs a reminder himself that when people pay for insurance, they expect to be insured.

 

[Shopkeep]

Merry Christmas everyone across this magnificent world of ours. Wishing everyone a safe a festive season and safe 2025.

I need to be added to the growing list (I've counted at least 10 so far from this 'post' alone) of driveshaft and underbody failures.
My Diesel Quartermaster was one of the first in Australia, taking delivery in May 2024.
I have done 26k (16,200 miles) in it due to my business in sawmills and forestry.
I run the factory supplied 17" steel wheels and KO2 AT tyres.
I love my QM - its a beast.
I have an alloy canopy with canvas built onto the tub to keep the weight low and have a 40L (10.5 gallon) water tank at the headboard which is usually half full most of the time.
Drifta did my drawers and fridge slide. I am well under my payload of 832kg.
In August 2024 I had a 35mm Eibach Pro Lift Kit installed by an INEOS Dealer in Qld who are Expedition 4WD and Big Rig specialists and in my opinion one of the best INEOS dealers in Australia. I had this done in Qld as I was working there plus their price for the 35mm Pro Lift kit was significantly cheaper than that sold by my 'home' dealer in Sydney who promotes and sells the 40mm Eibach lift kits.
I drive on the blacktop (highway and country roads). Very little gravel road work.
On 6 Dec 2024 I attended a Basic 4WD Training Course driving on forestry fire trails which is pretty tame off road driving.
As fate has it, the last wheel rut of the day in HIGH Range at about 5km/h (3miles/hr) I eased into the wheel rut and felt and heard a bang and then some shuddering. Wasn't a pleasant sound especially on a Grenadier. . . was trucked off to my Sydney dealer this week.
Diagnosis is a rear sway bar and front drive shaft failure and my dealer is 'prepping me' that because I've had it lifted it 'may' not be covered under warranty.
I refuse to accept this is not a Warranty Issue given the incident rate is growing and appears to increase around the 20,000km (12,500miles) range.
My thoughts are these from reading at least 10 similar stories across the globe within this post alone.
1. If INEOS is aware at August 2023 there is an underlying Driveshaft issue with Cardan and CV Boot issues why are INEOS Dealers still selling and promoting Eibach Lift Kits? Also seems different Dealers have different opinions on Warranty Claims.
2. IF this is a global issue then is this not a bigger engineering / design issue as pointed out by "Allrad-Oli's" from Deutschland post on 29/8/23 and by the YouTube video by "CrazyOldMan" on 3/6/23 from New Jersey USA on the multi cardan joint solution learned from Jeep issue being similar to INEOS.

For INEOS, it would be in there interest to have this fixed under warranty and 'learn' from my QM given the QM is longer and has a different configuration to the wagon. In Australia, INEOS is hoping to push the QM Cab Chassis as a contender against the Toyota LC79 which is the "King" of 4WD's in Australia.

Especially where a lift kit is a standard practise in Australia.
I'm now waiting on my dealer to tell me what's happening and if it will be repaired under warranty.

INEOS Australia, if you are reading these posts, I recommend using mine as a learning opportunity for your engineers given it's the first QM in Australia and first to fail. And currently I'm still a 'fanboy' of INEOS. Let's use this failure to learn and keep the 'Client Satisfaction Index" at a high 5 out of 5 by accepting this a warranty claim.

How is the rear sway bar failure related to the front drive shaft issue? The drive shaft issue on lifted vehicles is (unfortunately) reasonably well known but I have not read about the rear sway bar failure before.

 

[Tazzieman]

How is the rear sway bar failure related to the front drive shaft issue? The drive shaft issue on lifted vehicles is (unfortunately) reasonably well known but I have not read about the rear sway bar failure before.

No mention of what the sway bar failure was. Maybe whoever did the lift forgot to torque up the bolts properly, or left it partly unattached...

 

[NQ94]

Heh there NQ94 thanks for your feedback on the drive shaft failures on the IG's. Your feedback sounds like you have a bit more depth technical knowledge on this problem.? Can you share? My QM drive shaft and rear sway bar went 'kaput' on 6/12/24 in Lithgow State forest and I'm researching how common this fault is. "CrazyOldMan" in Jersey USA has a Youtube on double cardan solution learnt from similar issue with Jeeps. Thanks and Merry Christmas. Safe travels. Swamps

I have researched in a different direction and looked for the 4x4s that used Carraro axle and any details on how the axle is mounted with regards to pinion angle. Its is difficult to get Carraro on road axle information. The French Auverland, Scam chassis Iveco Daily and the Italian SCAM all use a Carraro axle and all seem to have the pinion angle near zero just like the Ineos. It looks like Carraro has some strict engineering guidelines possibly to ensure the outer pinion bearing is lubricated and cooled correctly due to the flow oil in the front diff being the opposite direction to the rear when driving forwards and the high mount pinion in a permanent 4x4 application. I know with some of the truck axle manufacturers there are maximum allowable pinion angles for normal operation.
I spent a few years doing OEM automatic transmission conversions on new trucks that could not be sequenced on the production line. For the truck to keep OEM warranties for the axles and transmissions there were a very strict set of drive line angles, shaft speed and length calculations that we had to complete and anything out of range we had to get engineering approval or correct by either shimming the transmission mounts, centre bearing if fitted or slightly rotating the axle within specifications to achieve the best outcome.
Some friends and I used this same principal on lifted 4x4. Years ago we found we were having issues with front drive line uni-joints and double cardan joints not lasting so we fitted adjustable rear control arms, swb Maverick and wedges to roll the rear axle on a front coil converted Hilux and put more angle on the rear pinon and shimmed up the rear of the transmission to push the front TC output down to decrease the front angle a little. This made the driveline more reliable off road, on road it wasn't an issue because the cars were not permanent 4x4. The failure rate and vibration reduced considerably, maintenance was still high, and it was cheaper then re-engineering the front axle something we could not afford at the time. Adjusting the rear pinion angle and lifting the rear of the transmission may work for a lifted Ineos if there is enough clearance for the engine and components.

 

[Commodore]

I have researched in a different direction and looked for the 4x4s that used Carraro axle and any details on how the axle is mounted with regards to pinion angle. Its is difficult to get Carraro on road axle information. The French Auverland, Scam chassis Iveco Daily and the Italian SCAM all use a Carraro axle and all seem to have the pinion angle near zero just like the Ineos. It looks like Carraro has some strict engineering guidelines possibly to ensure the outer pinion bearing is lubricated and cooled correctly due to the flow oil in the front diff being the opposite direction to the rear when driving forwards and the high mount pinion in a permanent 4x4 application. I know with some of the truck axle manufacturers there are maximum allowable pinion angles for normal operation.
I spent a few years doing OEM automatic transmission conversions on new trucks that could not be sequenced on the production line. For the truck to keep OEM warranties for the axles and transmissions there were a very strict set of drive line angles, shaft speed and length calculations that we had to complete and anything out of range we had to get engineering approval or correct by either shimming the transmission mounts, centre bearing if fitted or slightly rotating the axle within specifications to achieve the best outcome.
Some friends and I used this same principal on lifted 4x4. Years ago we found we were having issues with front drive line uni-joints and double cardan joints not lasting so we fitted adjustable rear control arms, swb Maverick and wedges to roll the rear axle on a front coil converted Hilux and put more angle on the rear pinon and shimmed up the rear of the transmission to push the front TC output down to decrease the front angle a little. This made the driveline more reliable off road, on road it wasn't an issue because the cars were not permanent 4x4. The failure rate and vibration reduced considerably, maintenance was still high, and it was cheaper then re-engineering the front axle something we could not afford at the time. Adjusting the rear pinion angle and lifting the rear of the transmission may work for a lifted Ineos if there is enough clearance for the engine and components.

Very good observations. I was also wondering if this could be a pinon bearing lubrication requirement. Even more so because it is a high pinon. That would make cutting and turning to improve pinon angle a no go.

 

[GavinD]

Hi Gav, Swampy here from Sydney. Hope all your troubles got sorted. Question(s). Did they find the cause of the bang and thudding? Did it get repaired under warranty? Last question? Did you have a lift kit done? My QM has also failed on 6/12/24 doing a 4WD Basic training course at Lithgow. Same thing. A bang and thudding. Its in with Dealer to be 'decided if a warranty claim".

Swampy, yes was all fixed under warranty and Ineos were great at trying to get it done. Never really found out why, didn't ask too much either. I had no lift. I also was just driving a dirt road, nothing adventurous. Gav

 

[255/85]

My Sydney INEOS dealer promotes and sells a 40mm (1.5 inch) Eibach Lift Kit and the underlying question is this: If INEOS Dealers are promoting and selling Eibach lift kits, are they not also part of the problem if there is an underlying "Drive Shaft / Cardan / CV Boot issue globally that owners aren't aware of?

A question for dealers would be are the aftermarket lift kits they are promoting from Eibach IA approved? Sure they are made by the same brand as the OEM springs but are the aftermarket specifications approved and tested by IA and covered as part of the overall vehicle warranty?

I can't see much resolution to the problem until this "dealer installed" question is answered - at least not for current owners. You wouldn't think 35mm/<1.5" of lift (excluding installation errors like @Tazzieman mentioned) would jeopardize the running gear on a vehicle the size of the Grenadier but it is Ineos' call.

As for future production there will likely be issues addressed like a little more positive caster on the front knuckles/swivels or other steering related changes. Conversely, I doubt there's any room to lift the rear of the transfer case. The engine - with insulation cover installed - is very tight under the hood and Ineos won't delete that because of the heat retention properties it affords.

Even if Carraro allows a little more leeway in pinion angle, most of the problems on lifted vehicles are at the front output of the transfer box. The double cardan front driveshaft solution (@Bodhi’s Grenadier I think) seems workable at low speeds but, man, that's a lot of rotating weight to throw around at highway speeds with a full-time 4WD. Will the t-case output shaft's bearing hold? Will the front pinion bearings hold?

 

[Walter]

Bad news. The dealer just called and said this issue isn’t covered under warranty because of the aftermarket lift. Even though they installed the lift kit, they claim I didn’t provide a drop kit to lower the driveshaft or axle—though I’m not entirely sure what they mean.
I explained that Eibach doesn’t offer a drop kit and that this issue has happened in other cases, so mine isn’t the first. They said they’ll contact INEOS and get back to me.

UPDATE (DEC 23, 2024): It will be covered under warranty! Parts on back order, expected delivery sometime in January.

View attachment IMG_6385.jpg

 

[parb]

I think it's safe to assume that if the car is lifted and the drive shaft breaks that there is little warranty.

 

[TCMColorado]

The question I keep asking myself, given the obvious link between lifts and front drive shaft failures, is why bother lifting the vehicle when you can use 33 or 34 inch tires (which is the size range almost everyone is running) with zero lift and no rubbing. Especially when installing only springs and shocks does absolutely nothing to increase tire clearance. The suspension can still compress to the OEM bump stops so tire clearance has not changed in any way. All you do is reduce available suspension droop and increase angles on the prop shafts leading to these front shaft failures.

 

[Asnes]

The question I keep asking myself is why bother lifting the vehicle when you can use 33 or 34 inch tires (which is the size range almost everyone is running) with zero lift and no rubbing. Especially when installing only springs and shocks does absolutely nothing to increase tire clearance. The suspension can still compress to the OEM bump stops so tire clearance has not changed in any way. All you do is reduce available suspension droop and increase angles on the prop shafts leading to these front shaft failures.

I guess well you do get a little more approach / departure / break over angles.

For me, not really needed so I simply moved up to 33” tires and called it a day with stock ride height.

 

[TCMColorado]

I guess well you do get a little more approach / departure / break over angles.

For me, not really needed so I simply moved up to 33” tires and called it a day with stock ride height.

I too am on the OEM suspension. Running the factory steel wheels with Mickey Thompson Baja Boss tires in 255/85R17 which have a spec of 34.6"x9.8". No rubbing of any kind under any conditions and these are as tall as most tires labeled as 35s. With these tires the angles and ground clearance are completely sufficient for anything short of technical rock crawling. The Grenadier is not designed for the rocks anyway, that is what my Jeep is for.

 

[C-Mack]

Because years of marketing, aggressive aftermarket industry, social media and trying to keep up with peers demands big vehicle lifts and huge tires… sort of an automotive equivalent of body dysmorphia syndrome? “Not that there is anything wrong with that.” According to some TV show in the 90’s.

Truth is, everyone of us can get by in life without a Grenadier or similar 4x4 vehicle… for most it is a lifestyle choice/statement and a source of entertainment and fun. Everyone can modify their vehicle how they see fit and for whatever purpose they intend to use it for so long as they are comfortable with the Pros & Cons, of which, they’ll be many.

That said, it’s always amazing to see what a sensibly modified near-stock vehicle of any brand is capable of in the right hands. Reliability is what I want for my personal build but others choose different paths and that’s okay.

 

[Logsplitter]

At the Game Fair UK this year they had a Safari Ineos Grenadier converted by Ineos Kavongo with 34-1;2” tyres . I wonder what suspension lift they had and what drive line and suspension upgrades they did for that vehicle. Bearing

in mind this is an Ineos owned company.

 

[parb]

I run 33.5" tires and I'm really happy with that choice. Now when I was in Moab did I wish I had an extra inch? Yeah for sure. But waiting until we have more data on longevity and issues with the lift kits.

 

[TCMColorado]

Because years of marketing, aggressive aftermarket industry, social media and trying to keep up with peers demands big vehicle lifts and huge tires… sort of an automotive equivalent of body dysmorphia syndrome? “Not that there is anything wrong with that.” According to some TV show in the 90’s

Truth is, everyone of us can get buy in life without a Grenadier or similar 4x4 vehicle… for most it is a lifestyle choice/statement and a source of entertainment and fun. Everyone can modify their vehicle how they see fit and for whatever purpose they intend to use it for so long as they are comfortable with the Pros & Cons, of which, they’ll be many.

That said, it’s always amazing to see what a sensibly modified near-stock vehicle of any brand is capable of in the right hands. Reliability is what I want for my personal build but others choose different paths and that’s okay.

Reliability and low weight are my primary goals for the Grenadier. Unlike with previous vehicle builds when I let the weight get out of hand and needed all kinds of modifications to run big tires and add strength to the drive line.

I am even considering dropping down in tire size. The Baja Boss tires are great in 255/85 (spec of 34.6") but the Grenadier does feel slightly over geared and no gear sets are yet available for the Carraro axles. The ideal tire size without a regear is likely 33" to 33.5".