Front drive shaft broken

[TCMColorado]

I run 33.5" tires and I'm really happy with that choice. Now when I was in Moab did I wish I had an extra inch? Yeah for sure. But waiting until we have more data on longevity and issues with the lift kits.

What specific tire are you running? I am considering the Toyo AT III in 34x10.5R17 (spec of 33.5" x 10.6") to replace my Baja Boss tires.

 

[Commodore]

At the Game Fair UK this year they had a Safari Ineos Grenadier converted by Ineos Kavongo with 34-1;2” tyres . I wonder what suspension lift they had and what drive line and suspension upgrades they did for that vehicle. BearingView attachment 7881930View attachment 7881931 in mind this is an Ineos owned company.

Those tires will fit with a factory suspension. You do need a wheel with a different offset which is what they have done.

 

[TCMColorado]

At the Game Fair UK this year they had a Safari Ineos Grenadier converted by Ineos Kavongo with 34-1;2” tyres . I wonder what suspension lift they had and what drive line and suspension upgrades they did for that vehicle. BearingView attachment 7881930View attachment 7881931 in mind this is an Ineos owned company.

Given the 12.4" width of these tires a lift of some kind would likely be required to clear them or maybe just a specific wheel offset. Not to mention the additional spring rate needed to carry that many passengers.

Edit.............Commodore beat me to the punch on wheel offset. But no doubt a custom spring rate in the rear to handle the payload. Looks like 8 seats in total which is easily 1300 pounds of body weight.

 

[Commodore]

What specific tire are you running? I am considering the Toyo AT III in 34x10.5R17 (spec of 33.5" x 10.6") to replace my Baja Boss tires.

I'm not sure you are going to feel that much difference between a 34x10.50r17 and a 255/85r17.

 

[Commodore]

Given the 12.4" width of these tires a lift of some kind would likely be required to clear them or maybe just a specific wheel offset. Not to mention the additional spring rate needed to carry that many passengers.

Lifts don't add clearance unless you also change the compression stop.

 

[C-Mack]

Ever see the guy who is really into outdoor gear and buys all the super expensive hardcore winter clothing and because he’s so into it you see him wearing it all at once even though it’s still August? As if he’s going to turn a street corner at any moment and suddenly be confronted with the side slopes of Mt. Everest and be in a fight for his survival?

I see plenty of those kind of 4x4 rigs in my area and from time to time it gives me the giggles… but hey, should a giant mountain suddenly appear they’ll make the rest of us look like idiots as they zip right over it and survive!! It’s all good fun and I’m happy for the variety as sometimes you see things you may like for your own projects.

 

[TCMColorado]

Lifts don't add clearance unless you also change the compression stop.

No they do not, just as I mentioned in a post earlier in this thread. But for what is an Ineos owned company they could easily have engineered extended bump stops if needed for this specific application. It is a fully customized vehicle for games drives so it could have all kinds of mods that will never be offered for sale.

 

[TCMColorado]

I'm not sure you are going to feel that much difference between a 34x10.50r17 and a 255/85r17.

The height difference is a full 1" per the spec of each tire. That could definitely be felt from a gear perspective especially considering the 9 pound weight difference between the Toyo and the Mickey T. But the smart call is probably to drop to a spec'd size of 33" which is still 1.5" more than the OEM tire.

 

[parb]

What specific tire are you running? I am considering the Toyo AT III in 34x10.5R17 (spec of 33.5" x 10.6") to replace my Baja Boss tires.

wrangler duratrac lt in 275/70R18/. 33.16 inches on steelies.

however if i would do it again i would seriously consider the KO3's or the geolandar M/T G003.

 

[bakepl]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHY0dWjr7s8&t=26s

 

[GN4HIR]

sort of an automotive equivalent of body dysmorphia syndrome?

Ha! I was just about to ask if the "No Lifters" were also the guys telling girls they didn't need implants because they are perfect just as they are...

I have to admit, I'm beginning to wonder if I'm on borrowed time. Which will cost more, labor to go back to stock springs or changing the CV every 6K like its a dirty filter. I already know your answer, what if the CV takes out the T case.

With the money I'm going to have to spend, I could have gotten a deserving "nursing" student / dancer, enlargements in Mexico.. well, at least one, she can get the other for Valentines day.

Before I get a warning, I return you to your family friendly board.

 

[Outlander]

Modifying the vehicle in ways that increase the CV angle—like adding a lift or adjusting the caster angle—significantly raises the risk of damaging the factory front drive shafts' CV joint. At the moment, the only solution is to replace the drive shaft. Fortunately, several companies are working on fixes, and with any luck, 2025 will bring reliable aftermarket options.

Also as an update I've done about 35k on the replacement drive shaft with no problems.

 

[C-Mack]

Ha! I was just about to ask if the "No Lifters" were also the guys telling girls they didn't need implants because they are perfect just as they are...

I have to admit, I'm beginning to wonder if I'm on borrowed time. Which will cost more, labor to go back to stock springs or changing the CV every 6K like its a dirty filter. I already know your answer, what if the CV takes out the T case.

With the money I'm going to have to spend, I could have gotten a deserving "nursing" student / dancer, enlargements in Mexico.. well, at least one, she can get the other for Valentines day.

Before I get a warning, I return you to your family friendly board.

I appreciate the humor I really do!

Messing around with Grenadier’s is sort of like playing with LEGOS. Some folks like to be wild and use all the colors in the box while others want to be very serious and use a just a few colors in an ordered fashion. Both end up with interesting LEGO constructions and neither is better than the other.

The point being, at least we all got to play legos together and have some fun at least until we step on the damn little sharp pieces left behind in the dark.

 

[Bodhi’s Grenadier]

I can't see much resolution to the problem until this "dealer installed" question is answered - at least not for current owners. You wouldn't think 35mm/<1.5" of lift (excluding installation errors like @Tazzieman mentioned) would jeopardize the running gear on a vehicle the size of the Grenadier but it is Ineos' call.

As for future production there will likely be issues addressed like a little more positive caster on the front knuckles/swivels or other steering related changes. Conversely, I doubt there's any room to lift the rear of the transfer case. The engine - with insulation cover installed - is very tight under the hood and Ineos won't delete that because of the heat retention properties it affords.

Even if Carraro allows a little more leeway in pinion angle, most of the problems on lifted vehicles are at the front output of the transfer box. The double cardan front driveshaft solution (@Bodhi’s Grenadier I think) seems workable at low speeds but, man, that's a lot of rotating weight to throw around at highway speeds with a full-time 4WD. Will the t-case output shaft's bearing hold? Will the front pinion bearings hold?

I don’t think it seems that much heavier than the factory shaft, I should’ve weighed it prior to install. However, though it has an additional “joint” to it versus a traditional single double cardan, it’s all perfectly dynamically balanced, so it’s not “throwing” weight around as it’s all in line.

More built in caster would be great as well as a more optimally positioned pinion. But any kind of lift is going to alter things, so proper adjustable links would still be needed. This stuff has been done for decades on wranglers now, not really much different of a problem.

 

[MrMike]

Bad news. The dealer just called and said this issue isn’t covered under warranty because of the aftermarket lift. Even though they installed the lift kit, they claim I didn’t provide a drop kit to lower the driveshaft or axle—though I’m not entirely sure what they mean.
I explained that Eibach doesn’t offer a drop kit and that this issue has happened in other cases, so mine isn’t the first. They said they’ll contact INEOS and get back to me.

View attachment 7881870View attachment 7881871

That is crap!, there is no drop kit available. Not sure what your consumer laws are in CAN but I'd be having a word

 

[MrMike]

I think it's safe to assume that if the car is lifted and the drive shaft breaks that there is little warranty.

We in AU get dealer fitted kits, 40mm so full warranty applies

 

[Walter]

That is crap!, there is no drop kit available. Not sure what your consumer laws are in CAN but I'd be having a word

Exactly... the dealership making excuses isn’t a good sign. I told them to contact INEOS before making a final decision, but I haven’t heard back yet. It’ll probably be after Christmas—or maybe even after New Year.

 

[parb]

I can't speak to the Australian market but in the US I doubt it matters who installs the kit. The US resellers are separate entities from Ineos and can't make contractual modifications on their behalf without approval. Until Ineos corporate says they will extend warranty to modified vehicles as long as the modification is performed by an Ineos reseller then I think it's safest to assume they won't.

Having said that, I think your dealer is on the hook for the repair unless they wrote something into the sales contract stating that that don't provide any warranties beyond the added parts themselves. Its what eibach state with their lift kits.

If Ineos endorses any particular lift kit including their own, which is what it sounds like they are doing in Australia? Then I think it will be hard for them to deny warranty when other kits are installed. But afaik they haven't done that except possibly in Australia.

I get the point that agency theory in common law applies but that is why i would scrutinize the contract to make sure it's not explicitly called out as not applying to this modification.

 

[MrMike]

I can't speak to the Australian market but in the US I doubt it matters who installs the kit. The US resellers are separate entities from Ineos and can't make contractual modifications on their behalf without approval. Until Ineos corporate says they will extend warranty to modified vehicles as long as the modification is performed by an Ineos reseller then I think it's safest to assume they won't.

Having said that, I think your dealer is on the hook for the repair unless they wrote something into the sales contract stating that that don't provide any warranties beyond the added parts themselves. Its what eibach state with their lift kits.

If Ineos endorses any particular lift kit including their own, which is what it sounds like they are doing in Australia? Then I think it will be hard for them to deny warranty when other kits are installed. But afaik they haven't done that except possibly in Australia.

I get the point that agency theory in common law applies but that is why i would scrutinize the contract to make sure it's not explicitly called out as not applying to this modification.

To go ahead and fit the lift without any caveat is wrong, they should know what they are doing and the effect it has on related components.

 

[Walter]

To go ahead and fit the lift without any caveat is wrong, they should know what they are doing and the effect it has on related components.

• There have been driveshaft failures on unlifted Grenadiers with the OEM setup
• Lift kits are sourced from Eibach, the official spring manufacturer.
• INEOS should already be fully aware of this product and the issues that have occurred, yet no caveat or warning has been provided to customers.
• The Grenadier is designed and marketed as a hardcore 4x4, priced as a reliable heavy-duty off-roader. Lifts, upgrades, and modifications are expected in this segment.

While a lift may increase the chances of driveshaft failure, it is not the only or primary cause. INEOS needs to address these concerns comprehensively. Customers are paying for the quality and reliability of the product, not for excuses or disclaimers.