Fusilier On Hold???

FlyersFan76 said:

I thought they just meant American Cheese not the various styles of Chedders, etc.

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G-Man said:

This thread is so far off topic it's in another dimension

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AWo said:

Using hydrogen in industry and for mobility is a far more complex and energy intensive thing, that many people have in mind. Far more...

Burning it in cars, to be honest, is a pure waste compared to the scaling effects it has in industrial use. Providing hydrogen for individual mobility has so many CO2 and energy intensive penalties, that it should be used by industrial users first.

And the most important thing is to increase dramatically the amount of green hydrogen first. Otherwise hydrogen is even more bad. Over 80% of hydrogen comes from ethane, today. That means 10 tons of CO2 for 1 ton of hydrogen.

AWo

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MRO said:

Couldn't agree more. Converting electricity to hydrogen loses 30% of the energy and then back to electricity the same. So electrolytic hydrogen throws away 50% of so of the energy before it is even used. Then you need different transport infrastructure for it given how small the hydrogen atoms are it leaks through normal steel.

Industrial uses where it is created and used on site and replaces coal is optimal and worthwhile, even if still expensive. Building an infrastructure for road use plus replacing ICEs with fuel cells is a complete waste of time versus BEV. There could be a use case for heavy trucks, mining equipment etc where it is far from existing fossil fuels and can be generated on site. Plus in these uses the fuel cells are constantly on which improves efficiency and life.

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CrazyOldMan said:

Wouldn’t you say the same is true of eFuels? Isn’t the power required for production actually worse than just going electric? So if hydrogen and eFuels don’t make sense, and Europe won’t allow REx, then it seems there is no path for Ineos - they have to build off their current customer base and value proposition, which is about rugged capability and “adventure-ready.” They can’t just do some stupid BEV metro golf cart. They would be demolished. The only option would be hybrid or REx, but NOT built in Europe.

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CrazyOldMan said:

Wouldn’t you say the same is true of eFuels? Isn’t the power required for production actually worse than just going electric? So if hydrogen and eFuels don’t make sense, and Europe won’t allow REx, then it seems there is no path for Ineos - they have to build off their current customer base and value proposition, which is about rugged capability and “adventure-ready.” They can’t just do some stupid BEV metro golf cart. They would be demolished. The only option would be hybrid or REx, but NOT built in Europe efuels only marginally better than fossil. They may not come from long term carbon storage but they still require fertilisers and displace food production elsewhere (massive leakage issue).

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MRO said:

As you suggest efuels only marginally better than fossil if at all. They may not require drawing on long term carbon storage underground but still emit carbon through farming and fertiliser use and also displace food production elsewhere (massive leakage issue).

I think there is a product niche for them with BEV suitable for farms, mines, game reserves, park rangers etc where c 100 miles range is adequate for a day's use. I think they could do this with the grenadier if they did a 2 door chassis cab on the grenadier not quartermaster platform and without going lunatic on battery capacity, maybe 50kwh . If they did it, I think there are a lot more outside those use cases who would buy it. Would hope they could do that for around the same price as current list price.

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Jeremy996 said:

No, not really, many of the e-fuels use a different feedstock, like alcohol, so much of the embedded energy came from the sun via organic matter. Green hydrogen only really exists in the laboratory at the moment and there is still not a massive surplus of PV generated electricity to be stored/converted to H2.
These days a BEV can be assembled from a kit of bits and Ineos Automotive could make a hybrid using a BMW motor/generator and a battery, so I do not see them as dead in the water. The Fusilier has been suspended on the lack of a business case, not technical feasibility.

(I ran my old LR110CSW on recycled cooking oil for more than a decade; a bit of basic chemistry and some good quality filters and I should be able to run the Grenadier on bio-diesel, but not while it is still under warranty and worth more than the rest of my garage put together!)

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CrazyOldMan said:

Maybe I’m looking at it all wrong

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Max said:

Well, you may be right with that thought...I have now read the posts checked with the crystal ball and the answer is a sausage

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DaveB said:

I posted on here a couple of years ago that I thought it was inevitable that Ineos would sell it's automotive division eventually to one of the major brands.
Which ones might be interested in adding an old school, robust, low volume flagship to their line?
One suitable for non-european markets?
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CrazyOldMan said:

Wouldn’t BMW make the most sense? VW Group as well, but NEVER with a BMW engine I suppose.

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DaveB said:

Then again BMW doesn't have a pickup or a real 4WD so could be an obvious addition.

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CrazyOldMan said:

At this point, this CLEARLY constitutes harassment. I will wake up screaming “Dave’s sausage,” and my wife will insist on couple’s therapy.

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Max said:

Ok, that is done and dusted can we now just hide the sausage, please?

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DaveB said:

It was 6 degrees overnight here.
You can assume that job is done and dusted.

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