Workshop Manuals available?

[Cheshire cat]

At this stage I would even consider some form of paid access or subscription model for when I needed it. Not that I signed up for that.

 

[landmannnn]

Maybe with IA having some time on their hands they can get on with the workshop manual?

 

[mikeonline]

INEOS still tells internally, that the workshop manual is coming out when it is ready. But this information is very vague.
Also we cant rely, that what they say to us, if it is not written.
Manual must be offline and free. Online wont work for an offroader. Also some printouts would be useful and some text and tables about electrical things etc.
I fear we just get a good video. nevertheless its better than nothing.
I think it is time for Sir Jim himself, to stand in front of a camera and tell us what happens, about problems and about promises.
Somekind of a honorable speech, where you can rely on his words. but.. its very quiet currently about INEOS.

 

[NQ94]

INEOS still tells internally, that the workshop manual is coming out when it is ready. But this information is very vague.
Also we cant rely, that what they say to us, if it is not written.
Manual must be offline and free. Online wont work for an offroader. Also some printouts would be useful and some text and tables about electrical things etc.
I fear we just get a good video. nevertheless its better than nothing.
I think it is time for Sir Jim himself, to stand in front of a camera and tell us what happens, about problems and about promises.
Somekind of a honorable speech, where you can rely on his words. but.. its very quiet currently about INEOS.

I would not expect the manuals to be free. The manuals will be like every other manufacturer, pay for access and downloaded and printable as a PDF file. As soon as an owner that is not trade qualified with proof or experience touches the car and does repairs or service and causes a fault there goes the warranty.

 

[MattA]

I would not expect the manuals to be free. The manuals will be like every other manufacturer, pay for access and downloaded and printable as a PDF file. As soon as an owner that is not trade qualified with proof or experience touches the car and does repairs or service and causes a fault there goes the warranty.

Even if they don’t cause a fault any and all car manufacturers would claim no warranty if a un qualified person was found to have done work on a vehicle

 

[DenisM]

Even if they don’t cause a fault any and all car manufacturers would claim no warranty if a un qualified person was found to have done work on a vehicle

You're probably right. The original marketing 'message' from Ineos however was that they would honour warranty on DIY maintenance and repairs so long as the replacement parts were obtained through the Ineos supply chain. That was their big 'point of difference' .
More recently, there has been a subtle but noticeable shift in their language which begins to 'qualify' what their intentions were/are now. Shifting the goal posts comes to mind. We wait in forlorn hope....

 

[Znarfgh]

Last update we had in AUS from the CEO of Ineos Automotive APAC was that the manuals would be available in Q4 of 2024. Reason for the delay was IP issues needed to be resolved before release.

I'd be happy with a pdf file like I have for my Land Rover Discovery 2.

 

[holdmybeer]

In Canada, and I assume the USA, an automaker must honour the vehicle warranty if service and repairs are done per the manufacturer’s spec and schedule and a good paper trail is kept. DIY or 3rd party or dealer. We don’t need a marketing message or brand for this. It’s the law.

This is very easy to do for oil and filter changes. It gets very hard if the maintenance procedures for complex tasks is not published. If this was big Ford or Toyota, one could speculate that they make this information hard to get on purpose, for a recurring revenue stream per customer. For little INEOS, I think they’re just bad at managing deliverables.

 

[rovie]

Yes, you and many others are right. I also read this at the time and asked several times. As I wrote here (https://www.theineosforum.com/threads/workshop-manuals-available.12411552/post-1333263859) at the beginning of the year, there will be no manual in the form originally communicated. It was later discussed whether there would be a manual for carrying out simple work. Whatever that may mean. However, I do not know the current status of this matter. I don't think they realised the extent of the responsibility. The company is still too young and in some cases too inexperienced, even if the will to get something going is certainly there. It is undoubtedly annoying that they are backpedalling in some places, but it doesn't help. I had to reckon with it. I realised that there was a certain risk in signing a contract and transferring money at an early stage when there wasn't even a finished vehicle yet. But I wanted to be part of this adventure right from the start. I realised that I would have problems with one of the first production vehicles delivered. But I'm still amazed at how few problems I have compared to vehicles that were delivered much later. I also forgave my Defender a lot back then. It was just part of it. I feel the same way about the Grenadier.

 

[Dok]

View: https://youtu.be/bOoMi-rpAU0?feature=shared&t=2259


31:50 / Service
33:00 / Servicing the Grenadier
37:40 / 3D Parts Catalogie, 3D Repair Manual, 3D Technical Informations

I can understand why they backtracked on certain points... But we're talking about the grassroots of the grassroots.

 

[Tom D]

Anyone fancy teaming up with a lawyer?
I really want INEOS to succeed, I love the project but having a workshop manual was a massive selling point for me, and it was promised. I was very close to buying an arab spec import 70 series cruiser, but opted for the grenadier as it was way more comfortable and better in a lot of respects. One of the big deciding factors was the workshop manual and the Bosch partnership which was presumably going to mean that there would be a Bosch scan tool available. Without that its just another car with ECU's and electronics that I can't fix myself, for me thats an issue.
I hate the idea of taking them to court but I feel like some sort of group action is required, wether its through UK trading Standards enforcement or an actual legal case this needs to be resolved. I'm not a carpet bagger and I don't want it to escalate to the point that they have to pay compensation. I just want the bloody manual. A PDF would do....

Does anyone know the best way to pressure them into providing what they promised?

 

[tillfew]

I’ve used workshopmanuals.org before for automotive repair manuals, and they have a wide selection. Manuals are pretty detailed, including wiring diagrams and step-by-step instructions. Perfect if you want to DIY or just avoid hefty dealer charges!

 

[skibum35]

Does anyone know the best way to pressure them into providing what they promised?

Do what I am doing; dont buy one until they are released! I have told the dealers dont call me back until you have a workshop manual.

 

[Stu_Barnes]

Sadly it may be time to hold some feet to the fire, theres a few things that were touted during the development which appear to have been abandoned...

 

[Jeremy996]

Anyone fancy teaming up with a lawyer?
I really want INEOS to succeed, I love the project but having a workshop manual was a massive selling point for me, and it was promised. I was very close to buying an arab spec import 70 series cruiser, but opted for the grenadier as it was way more comfortable and better in a lot of respects. One of the big deciding factors was the workshop manual and the Bosch partnership which was presumably going to mean that there would be a Bosch scan tool available. Without that its just another car with ECU's and electronics that I can't fix myself, for me thats an issue.
I hate the idea of taking them to court but I feel like some sort of group action is required, wether its through UK trading Standards enforcement or an actual legal case this needs to be resolved. I'm not a carpet bagger and I don't want it to escalate to the point that they have to pay compensation. I just want the bloody manual. A PDF would do....

Does anyone know the best way to pressure them into providing what they promised?

I'm part way down that road already. As the last date for provision given by official channels was Q4 2024 it would be foolish and expensive to start too much in advance of delivery/non-delivery.

Where it gets more complex is where delivery is less than expected - to sue or not to sue?

 

[landmannnn]

Anyone fancy teaming up with a lawyer?
I really want INEOS to succeed, I love the project but having a workshop manual was a massive selling point for me, and it was promised. I was very close to buying an arab spec import 70 series cruiser, but opted for the grenadier as it was way more comfortable and better in a lot of respects. One of the big deciding factors was the workshop manual and the Bosch partnership which was presumably going to mean that there would be a Bosch scan tool available. Without that its just another car with ECU's and electronics that I can't fix myself, for me thats an issue.
I hate the idea of taking them to court but I feel like some sort of group action is required, wether its through UK trading Standards enforcement or an actual legal case this needs to be resolved. I'm not a carpet bagger and I don't want it to escalate to the point that they have to pay compensation. I just want the bloody manual. A PDF would do....

Does anyone know the best way to pressure them into providing what they promised?

If you made a contract with Ineos (written or verbal) which said a manual would be provided, then you could certainly engage a lawyer.

 

[Jeremy996]

If you made a contract with Ineos (written or verbal) which said a manual would be provided, then you could certainly engage a lawyer.

I bought mine cash and it was delivered on the 22/04/2023. That there is a contract with IA is not in doubt; in the UK the dealer is an agent after all. Where the waters get muddy is the matter of the "manual", was it actually an offer that could be accepted, a bit of marketing fluff or "bait and switch", which is illegal.

 

[ADVAW8S]

Sadly it may be time to hold some feet to the fire, theres a few things that were touted during the development which appear to have been abandoned...

Like seats

 

[MattA]

Some comments here are a bit amusing
Do people not take notice on what occurs in the modern world?
Companies , and I’ll add, the bigger the company the worse it is, lie and spook their products to increase sales.