Winch or not ?

[DCPU]

Why only the last 10 years ? People have been trashing the planet for long before that. It's what humans do - we wreck stuff.

It's the mainstream message that's relatively new, not the trashing of the planet.

The days of Camel Trophy then vs Trek Challenge now.

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

The best answer to my opening post came from Dave:



That sums it up perfectly.

Kind of yes - but to the point @painter made, sometimes a winch isn't about emergency use. Sometimes it's just the mechanically more gentle option to get passed an obstacle.

That's why I'm a bit surprised that people will frown on you using a winch in a green-lane situation; when used effectively a winch is actually a lot more gentle on the environment, and I think they should be used as such. Give the obstacle a go for sure, but don't keep spinning tires in the "hopes" that one will bite and get you over it on your 9th attempt -- just accept that traction ain't your friend after the first or second attempt, and use all the tools in your aresenal to help you by before you really break something or wreck the track for others. The 4WD action guys in Australia do this often - they'll bust out the winch right away if they don't think the rig is likely to make it without. It's gentler on everything involved.

 

[ECrider]

look after the tracks or the tracks will become closed one way or another. suits everyone to minimise damage and if that's winching then that's what one should do.

 

[emax]

@ChasingOurTrunks

Totally agree.

And there is more to it: pull a tree from away the path, help others ...

Apart from that: If I go for a walk or a hike in the forest, I always take a knife with me. Not because I 'need' it (though I often 'use' it), but because it's always been an item to carry with me in a forest since I was 14 years old. I feel otherwise incomplete, as it's just part of the game - just like a winch for 4x4 ventures.

Of course, it's expensive. But I consider it an investment - in particular in times of 10% inflation.

With that in mind, it's almost a no-brainer.

 

[DCPU]

That's why I'm a bit surprised that people will frown on you using a winch in a green-lane situation; when used effectively a winch is actually a lot more gentle on the environment, and I think they should be used as such.

There's obviously much history associated with our vehicular rights of way in the UK (and big differences between them also) but you have to consider that if you need a winch then are the ground conditions such that you shouldn't be there with a vehicle in the first place?

It's a judgement every 4x4 owner has to make for themselves but too many clearly make the wrong one.

 

[DCPU]

look after the tracks or the tracks will become closed one way or another.

That's the big debate in the UK.

suits everyone to minimise damage and if that's winching then that's what one should do.

I think the issue revolves around whether you are winching up/down/through a natural feature or damage caused by others.

In the UK it is mostly the latter, although there is much debate as to whether it's 4x4 vehicles, farmer's tractors, or others causing the damage. In some respects it is a side issue, as the ground is damaged.

With regard to the former, then there's the case that others will make that if you can't safely drive the route, then QED, the route is not suitable for vehicular access.

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

There's obviously much history associated with our vehicular rights of way in the UK (and big differences between them also) but you have to consider that if you need a winch then are the ground conditions such that you shouldn't be there with a vehicle in the first place?

It's a judgement every 4x4 owner has to make for themselves but too many clearly make the wrong one.

Fair point. I guess I'm used to multi-day trips; roads that are totally fine today as I go a days-drive into the backcountry might be winch-required when a rain storm comes along, and the next day they might be fine for traffic again. But I don't always have the option of staying in the backcountry waiting for things to dry out -- it might be "it's fine tomorrow", or it might be "unseasonable mountain weather means two weeks of rain" -- and I can't afford to wait that out.

But the green-lane context is perhaps a bit different; from what I can tell these apply to farm access roads that are often multi-user (i.e. horses, bikes, walkers) and are typically shorter runs of less than a day, so if the weather means one is closed to you today, I imagine that it's not a big deal to go to a better/dryer option and preserve the track. Perhaps I am wrong about this?

Either way, I think the objective ought to be "leave nothing but tire tracks", and I do know that's not a universal value of 4x4 drivers.

 

[painter]

Kind of yes - but to the point @painter made, sometimes a winch isn't about emergency use. Sometimes it's just the mechanically more gentle option to get passed an obstacle.

That's why I'm a bit surprised that people will frown on you using a winch in a green-lane situation; when used effectively a winch is actually a lot more gentle on the environment, and I think they should be used as such. Give the obstacle a go for sure, but don't keep spinning tires in the "hopes" that one will bite and get you over it on your 9th attempt -- just accept that traction ain't your friend after the first or second attempt, and use all the tools in your aresenal to help you by before you really break something or wreck the track for others. The 4WD action guys in Australia do this often - they'll bust out the winch right away if they don't think the rig is likely to make it without. It's gentler on everything involved.

When I was a young guy with a new 4Runner I was travelling above a large lake then turned down a side road to a nice bay. Great place ... until it started raining. Headed back up the road - nope, couldn't make it. Rocks were too slick. So, long story short, I pounded up that road using momentum, probably for a few hundred metres. Ugh ! Later that week, I bought my first winch.

Now, many years later that side road is a tough "4x4 only" because the road surface has been heavily eroded from running water (mountains + rain forest) and the road is not maintained.

Point here is, you could be waiting at the bottom of that road until the cows come home (read, a very long time) because who knows when it will be fixed or put back into service.

And that's not uncommon in my province. Lots of resource roads that deteriorate once the logging etc has stopped. True, nowadays newer roads should be deactivated and are often made impassible at the road start after the area they access are exploited but there are plenty of other roads.

And, I expect this will be our future as we fall behind on repairing storm damaged infrastructure.

Again, I've never had a vehicle with differential lockers. And I don't pretend to fully understand, "green laning".

So each situation will be different.

 

[DCPU]

Absolutely, my comments on use of a winch is very much in the context of use within the UK, more specifically England (due to the devolved nature of some laws concerning access to the countryside).

 

[CountyV8]

Another shot of the flip plate at Goodwood (England) mixed messages Ineos.

 

[abakker]

So, I've skimmed this whole thread and I'll add another point that is in favor of a winch. I've got a few winches - a drill winch from warn, several 5k ones from HF on trailers, etc, and one on a hitch mount. There are a lot of non-driving situations where a winch/snatch block/webbing etc can be really helpful. I used a winch on the bumper of my truck, in addition to about 300' of webbing and some snatch blocks to pull a dead hot tub out of a friends back yard, up to the street. I've used them to scoot pallets around, to lift things (they say not to do this, but, c'mon). They can be used to provide well-controlled leverage at low speed for a variety of yard tasks. so, as a Utility rather than Sport vehicle, the winch gives you a ton of option.

 

[Spjnr]

So, I've skimmed this whole thread and I'll add another point that is in favor of a winch. I've got a few winches - a drill winch from warn, several 5k ones from HF on trailers, etc, and one on a hitch mount. There are a lot of non-driving situations where a winch/snatch block/webbing etc can be really helpful. I used a winch on the bumper of my truck, in addition to about 300' of webbing and some snatch blocks to pull a dead hot tub out of a friends back yard, up to the street. I've used them to scoot pallets around, to lift things (they say not to do this, but, c'mon). They can be used to provide well-controlled leverage at low speed for a variety of yard tasks. so, as a Utility rather than Sport vehicle, the winch gives you a ton of option.

Quite right. its a tool as much as its a recovery device.

 

[CountyV8]

Quite right. its a tool as much as its a recovery device.

Yes they are not. just for self recovery

 

[Inez]

So, I've skimmed this whole thread and I'll add another point that is in favor of a winch. I've got a few winches - a drill winch from warn, several 5k ones from HF on trailers, etc, and one on a hitch mount. There are a lot of non-driving situations where a winch/snatch block/webbing etc can be really helpful. I used a winch on the bumper of my truck, in addition to about 300' of webbing and some snatch blocks to pull a dead hot tub out of a friends back yard, up to the street. I've used them to scoot pallets around, to lift things (they say not to do this, but, c'mon). They can be used to provide well-controlled leverage at low speed for a variety of yard tasks. so, as a Utility rather than Sport vehicle, the winch gives you a ton of option.

 

[abakker]

That's the easy way to change a tire. Just winch the car up on a bridge and change it while its hanging

 

[klarie]

I was in the same situation as the thread starter. I opted off. The winch in my case was less to pull the car out but to pull a boar out of the bush. A friend of mine owns a taliban tank.. (at least he calls it so) a toyota pickup - he has 2 winches one in front and one in the rear on top of cabin. Both steel cables and they need a lot of maintenance in comparison to use.

What I will perhaps to is an aftermarket one with no steel but kevlar cable as an "on demand" attach when needed - and a socket for electric

That is what I am intending to do.

The ready to use - built in version is nice and maybe impressing. But what do we really "need". And I consider the maintenance work to keep the winch operational and additional weight.
Conclusion for me
Do I meet criteria that justify a permanent winch and maintence - no.
Do I meet criteria for on demand purpose, - perhaps but unlikely a 5ton plus.

What I d like would be a quick attach panel with electric sockets on front and rear for winch and perhaps other equipment needed.

What I assume - once IG has established itself there will be soon aftermarket or even Ineos itself to develop such kits and options to be fittet both as option or later as add on.

 

[DCPU]

Yes they are not. just for self recovery

Quite right. its a tool as much as its a recovery device.

Excellent reasons to own a winch but the very versatility illustrated in some of these other uses actually put an integrated winch at a disadvantage over a non-integrated one.

 

[bemax]

That's the easy way to change a tire. Just winch the car up on a bridge and change it while its hanging

You never changed a tire on a pendling car.It is no fun

 

[ECrider]

I rate this chap's channel. No guff/fluff and not duff. Wish my physics teacher had set things out as simply;

 

[emax]

View attachment 7794908

That's a consequent way to protect your car from theft.