Who regrets their decision?

[evomind]

I have an ongoing significant issue with the Air Con not working - which is a big thing when one of the main purposes of the vehicle was to ferry around 2 large dogs. But I am sure this will get resolved along with the other niggles. I don't regret buying the vehicle and was prepared to deal with early adopter issues. It is essentially a solid car and I'm hopeful given a few more months and a software update it will be an excellent car. And there's the fact that my configuration cost £65k but today would now cost £80k!

Cant you just take that anywhere to be fixed on your dime?
There isnt anything exotic about the air conditioning system in these trucks.
Maybe because youre in the UK you can wait it out but where Im from if the AC was out the vehicle would be a paperweight to me.
I would just pay a few bucks and fix that.

 

[acwiltshire]

The wife and I are at loggerheads whether to continue with the purchase so trying to be pragmatic and keep emotion out of it. Contract is imminent.

I ordered mine without seeing it, or driving it and it's the best heart over head decision I have ever made. Long time dead.

 

[Logsplitter]

I ordered mine without seeing it, or driving it and it's the best heart over head decision I have ever made. Long time dead.

+1

 

[Jean Mercier]

The most embarrassing and upsetting issue for me as a lover of the vehicle, is the support from Ineos. They really do seem to be failing in the customer service and support departments.

Same for me but X2: my dealer doesn't answer my questions and Ineos support is deceiving!
The car is just fantastic with some childhood illnesses

 

[Solmanic]

You'd have no issues with a good 200 but yeah, meh!

Yeah, but you’d have no excitement with one either.

 

[MRO]

My experience seems to mirror a few other owners not on this forum. We all like the Grenadier. The software issues are not a concern, most bed themselves down even without the update. The footrest is actually a plus, very comfortable. BUT, the steering vagueness makes it a little unrelaxing on the motorway (although at higher speeds mine gets more direct again…), diff/transfer box whine is excessive. Solid front axle has unique characteristics. Overall, as others have said, this is a niche vehicle best suited to long distance travel on unmade roads, and for rough and tumble outdoor pursuits. Many may find that involves too much compromise if main use cases are urban/tarmac oriented. There are so many things (comfort, design, robustness, utility and even handling) that are fantastic but I would not recommend it to anyone wanting an SUV. It isn’t. It is a modern defender, that is comfortable, powerful, solid and works. It is not a rival to a Range Rover, X5, GL etc. There is nothing else like it in Europe. Have a long test drive including all your uses before you buy. For some of the world it is perfect, for most it is not.

 

[Beormund]

Cant you just take that anywhere to be fixed on your dime?
There isnt anything exotic about the air conditioning system in these trucks.
Maybe because youre in the UK you can wait it out but where Im from if the AC was out the vehicle would be a paperweight to me.
I would just pay a few bucks and fix that.

Would that not invalidate the warranty? I would initially prefer to get the air con fault resolved via INEOS and their agents. But I agree, once out of warranty one would hope this could be fixed by any reputable garage. It looks to me like there is an issue with the air con part as it's the same part that has failed twice now.

 

[evomind]

Would that not invalidate the warranty? I would initially prefer to get the air con fault resolved via INEOS and their agents. But I agree, once out of warranty one would hope this could be fixed by any reputable garage. It looks to me like there is an issue with the air con part as it's the same part that has failed twice now.

They just would not cover the replacement part(s) you installed and if it goes bad and takes out anything else due to the part you put in, those wouldn't be covered either.
Its an A/C system, its not the quantum drive we recovered from a downed UFO.
Should be simple to at least be diagnosed, even though you have a good idea what went bad.

Again, maybe not a big deal in your part of the world but where Im at its generally around 107 degrees f in the summer.

 

[AnD3rew]

Would that not invalidate the warranty? I would initially prefer to get the air con fault resolved via INEOS and their agents. But I agree, once out of warranty one would hope this could be fixed by any reputable garage. It looks to me like there is an issue with the air con part as it's the same part that has failed twice now.

Not sure about the laws in the UK, but here in Australia any licensed mechanic can perfom service and repairs and as long as they use genuine parts or even 3rd party parts of equivalent quality and designed for the vehicle then the manufacturer can’t deny warranty claims on the basis of not using a dealer. Of course if your mechanic does dodgy work it falls back on them.

 

[Cheshire cat]

Not sure about the laws in the UK, but here in Australia any licensed mechanic can perfom service and repairs and as long as they use genuine parts or even 3rd party parts of equivalent quality and designed for the vehicle then the manufacturer can’t deny warranty claims on the basis of not using a dealer. Of course if your mechanic does dodgy work it falls back on them.

Very similar here in UK

 

[rovingoz]

Just to close this out. As much as the vehicle appeals we've decided to stay with the 76 and maybe see how the new 250 LC plays out, or revisit the Grenadier at a later date.

It's been difficult to avoid cognitive bias and maintain an objective view. My biggest concern is that apart from the idiosyncrasies and niggles, I sense some dealers (ours at least) will maintain an arms length approach - already evident with some in the UK/EU. Yes it’s similar with any make and there’s the warranty but not much good if it can't be rectified satisfactorily and just becomes accepted as part of the vehicle’s ‘character’, which might be fine with an older Defender. Ineos seems to be using the agency model to avoid direct comms until they sort themselves out.

Not everyone will tolerate the varied current issues with a vehicle in this price range. It has to be affecting sales and the mind boggles why Ineos have now priced it out of the reach of a large percentage of the 4wd community. I’m sure some of the dealers are mighty peeved after heavily investing based on the vehicle’s original target market. At the new pricing SJR is only helping JLR sell more Defenders as it's now moved into Toorak tractor/soccer mum territory but that’s a much less forgiving market.

I wonder if some early adopters had their time again would they still proceed even at the original pricing. Passion only goes so far if the vehicle becomes a right pain in the rear, and the risk of that is higher than I’d like. After the initial honeymoon period of ownership there may come a point when owners reach the end of their tether and more tangible actions are considered. I think eventually you might see some resorting to consumer laws to circumvent dealers / customer service so they can place their concerns directly at the feet of Ineos, especially in the US who are all on the latest pricing. Hopefully Ineos will decide to lift their game and restore some faith as on the current trajectory it doesn’t bode well. It’s a fantastic vehicle and I dearly hope Ineos comes out the other side with a truly timeless classic.

 

[255/85]

This is meant in all due respect but this sentence -

Passion only goes so far if the vehicle becomes a right pain in the rear, and the risk of that is higher than I’d like.

- illustrates to me that your entire reasoning for considering a Grenadier has been emotional and not at all pragmatic. I know you feel differently. Your tone and the effort put into your posts reveal that you are sincere but let's, if we can for moment, compare with my attitude towards the vehicle as offered from Ineos.

it's ugly. I do not find the vehicle attractive.

I think there are many mistakes with the design of the interior. No, I won't elaborate.

The drivetrain offered is not high on my list of preferred combinations or design. Close? Yes, but not preferred.

I don't particularly like the software UI and think there are major shortcomings.

it's more expensive than I'd like. And by a lot.

Who cares. I'm not buying the vehicle for any of the reasons above. I'm buying it because it suits my requirements at this time. I am willing to sell it off and (possibly) take a loss if I misjudged and find out that it doesn't. Unless you're cold and calculating you will make up a thousand reasons why it might prove to be a good decision to pass on the purchase. You will manufacture suppositions and hypotheticals in attempts to predict, and maybe even foster, customer dissatisfaction at some mysterious point in the future just so you can bail out and say "See, I told you so.".

If the vehicle is not what you want then pass. Please don't needlessly poison the waters just to talk yourself into a decision that your emotions don't want you to make.

Good luck whatever you decide.

 

[DaveB]

This is meant in all due respect but this sentence -



- illustrates to me that your entire reasoning for considering a Grenadier has been emotional and not at all pragmatic. I know you feel differently. Your tone and the effort put into your posts reveal that you are sincere but let's, if we can for moment, compare with my attitude towards the vehicle as offered from Ineos.

it's ugly. I do not find the vehicle attractive.

I think there are many mistakes with the design of the interior. No, I won't elaborate.

The drivetrain offered is not high on my list of preferred combinations or design. Close? Yes, but not preferred.

I don't particularly like the software UI and think there are major shortcomings.

it's more expensive than I'd like. And by a lot.

Who cares. I'm not buying the vehicle for any of the reasons above. I'm buying it because it suits my requirements at this time. I am willing to sell it off and (possibly) take a loss if I misjudged and find out that it doesn't. Unless you're cold and calculating you will make up a thousand reasons why it might prove to be a good decision to pass on the purchase. You will manufacture suppositions and hypotheticals in attempts to predict, and maybe even foster, customer dissatisfaction at some mysterious point in the future just so you can bail out and say "See, I told you so.".

If the vehicle is not what you want then pass. Please don't needlessly poison the waters just to talk yourself into a decision that your emotions don't want you to make.

Good luck whatever you decide.

Sorry but you just need to be beaten like a red headed step-child.

 

[Jean Mercier]

it's ugly. I do not find the vehicle attractive.

I think there are many mistakes with the design of the interior. No, I won't elaborate.

The drivetrain offered is not high on my list of preferred combinations or design. Close? Yes, but not preferred.

I don't particularly like the software UI and think there are major shortcomings.

it's more expensive than I'd like. And by a lot.

Don't buy it

 

[bigleonski]

Sorry but you just need to be beaten like a red headed step-child.

Surely these days you’re just locked in the cupboard under the stairs?

 

[FlyingTrotter]

My experience seems to mirror a few other owners not on this forum. We all like the Grenadier. The software issues are not a concern, most bed themselves down even without the update. The footrest is actually a plus, very comfortable. BUT, the steering vagueness makes it a little unrelaxing on the motorway (although at higher speeds mine gets more direct again…), diff/transfer box whine is excessive. Solid front axle has unique characteristics. Overall, as others have said, this is a niche vehicle best suited to long distance travel on unmade roads, and for rough and tumble outdoor pursuits. Many may find that involves too much compromise if main use cases are urban/tarmac oriented. There are so many things (comfort, design, robustness, utility and even handling) that are fantastic but I would not recommend it to anyone wanting an SUV. It isn’t. It is a modern defender, that is comfortable, powerful, solid and works. It is not a rival to a Range Rover, X5, GL etc. There is nothing else like it in Europe. Have a long test drive including all your uses before you buy. For some of the world it is perfect, for most it is not.

Completely agree with this summary - exactly why it proved not to be for me

 

[Tazzieman]

Surely these days you’re just locked in the cupboard under the stairs?

No chance for "rough and tumble outdoor pursuits" in there. So well suited for the purpose.

 

[AWo]

More information? Who is actually arguing for the Grenadier?

if your wife is, then knuckle down and do as you’re told.

if she is against it, you may have to roll out all the sure things but put “The Grenadier makes me…” in front.

eg:
The Grenadier makes me realise you are more beautiful today than the day I married you.
The Grenadier makes me remember how much I appreciate you.
Etc.

Get the drift?

I'm very curious about her anseers, starting with "Can you explain, why the Grenadier.....?"

 

[Trialmaster]

For me the software issues are a major concern, especially with the constant delays and lack of information.

Would I have bought if I had known the support was none existent - NO, most definitely not.

However, I have bought it and consequently put up with the shortfalls.

 

[Farglebah]

I'm very curious about her anseers, starting with "Can you explain, why the Grenadier.....?"

Yeah, it’s pretty much a one shot strategy. If she pressed I expect I’d just fold and start begging.