Wet feet

[MurphyMurph]

How did this vehicle get tested for over 1,000,000 miles all over the world in all different climates and this not come up? Seems very odd to me, like something changed with the parts for the production vehicle.

 

[klarie]

How did this vehicle get tested for over 1,000,000 miles all over the world in all different climates and this not come up? Seems very odd to me, like something changed with the parts for the production vehicle.

Hm, no I dont think so - however - there is a difference. The pre production vehicles were either assembled by Magna or in a low rate in Hambach. As not all cars have the problem but only some - I think it is production quality. So the guys doing it more slowly had more time to do their job properly. So the vehicles with the issues are recent builds or during ramp up.. or just vehicles built by employees with a hefty hangover?

 

[MurphyMurph]

Hm, no I dont think so - however - there is a difference. The pre production vehicles were either assembled by Magna or in a low rate in Hambach. As not all cars have the problem but only some - I think it is production quality. So the guys doing it more slowly had more time to do their job properly. So the vehicles with the issues are recent builds or during ramp up.. or just vehicles built by employees with a hefty hangover?

Isn’t the Hambach facility supposed to be one of the most advanced production lines in the world? In some of the videos there seem to be much more human involvement than would make sense for such an advanced operation. I did an Audi factory tour at their Ingolstadt plant in 2014 and it looked much more advanced than what I’ve seen in the videos. Just an observation, but a robot will provide much more consistent output vs a human. Also, like others have said I’m curious why the seals are applied with glue and not some type of clipped/screwed method. If a seal gets torn, good luck getting the original adhesive cleaned off!

 

[bemax]

I assume that the lower seal of the door is just too good.
That’s certainly better than to assume that the other parts of the seal fail…

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

It could be something as simple as the wrong die was used at the foam plant when they extruded a batch of Ineo's ordered door seals, and so a few cars have rolled off the line with this "bad" batch of seals and is having the water issue. So, manufacturing and design might be fine, but a slip-up at a supplier can cause intermittent issues like this.

@Jean Mercier I'm glad you are in good spirits about this and do let us know what Ineos says about your missing features

 

[Jiman01]

I assume that the lower seal of the door is just too good.
That’s certainly better than to assume that the other parts of the seal fail…

I agree. It looks like water that first enters at the top of the door, possibly along a roof channel/drain works it’s way down the door frame, where it should release to the ground but for some reason (maybe the seal is too good and/or it’s misplace/misaligned), so it collects between the inner/outer door seals.

 

[Hannes01]

What will happen in winter with the water?

 

[trobex]

Just add this to our list of pre-check / ongoing other issues to resolve when our vehicles arrive!

 

[bemax]

What will happen in winter with the water?

Hopefully I don’t fill the door area with water, just to wait for the frost coming at night.
I don’t like frozen locks. I would hate a frozen door!

 

[bigleonski]

Looks to me like the seals are TOO good.

 

[Solmanic]

How did this vehicle get tested for over 1,000,000 miles all over the world in all different climates and this not come up? Seems very odd to me, like something changed with the parts for the production vehicle.

Do we know if the prototype vehicles even had the outer door seals? These seem to be the cause of water being trapped on the outer sill.

 

[Loc Nar]

Just add this to our list of pre-check / ongoing other issues to resolve when our vehicles arrive!

::Loc Nar arrives to pick up his Grenadier from the dealer::

Dealer: "Loc Nar, what are those jerry cans for? Setting out right away on your first adventure?"

Loc Nar: "I suggest you stand back.""

 

[Jiman01]

It’s the Adventure Survival Option….I.e. EWCCS (Emergency Water Collection Channeling System)

 

[AWo]

Do we know if the prototype vehicles even had the outer door seals? These seem to be the cause of water being trapped on the outer sill.

I don't know if two seals apply to the rear doors, but the 2B prototypes 124 and 126 didn't have second seal in the back and I can't remember that I saw them at the side doors, but I'm not sure. The black thing you see on the left door is not a seal, it is a cable.

You should be aware, that the prototypes vary a lot between all 100-somewhat build, as these protoypes were build for different purposes. Some were build just to show them around, others for drivetrain or suspension testing, others for other purposes. As far as I know six were build for crash testing in Europe (BTW. In the beginning four different types of bull bars were planned for all three major markets. That would end up with 12 necessary crash tests and repeatings if some fail. That would have become very expensive. After Ineos figured that out, they decided to check what is legal where, in which country which bull bars are welcome and so they could reduce the number of crash tests. Luckily they found the smarter way, even if it took some and developemnt costs, as the bull bars were designed.)

The prototypes I had, had a really stupid and bad suspension. The dampers were placed far too much to the middle of the car. However, that is normal and ok, because these were not for suspension testing, So these prototypes are sometimes put togehter quick and dirty and were used for a certain purpose.

In the automotive industrie prototypes usually end with type 2B. However, Ineos managed to have at least a 2D. I'll never saw one of them closely. But they should be very close to the production. But when the prodution starts, changes should stop. If necessary these are collected for the next face lift. Only really bad issues should be addressed, and every car manufacturer faces these issues, but usually only in small amounts. The worst thing is if organisations like the German KBA or the American NTSB or NHTS stop a car modell, like they did in 2014 for GM, where the ignition switch failed leaving the driver withount any power support for steering and braking causing death in some cases. The reason why first Grenadier buyers have to wait longer than later buyers is because while production has already started, many parts where still changed. Cars produced later received already these new parts and could be deliverd sooner. Looking at the issues collected here, it seems that still some parts need a replacement, even in the later production batches.

AWo

 

[Tazzieman]

That one shot of the water pouring from the door sill looked like the set of the Poseidon Adventure!

Nothing to see here when I google that.

 

[Shaky]

Update

When I initially saw this problem of collecting water between the door seals. I went out when it was raining and was suspicious of water coming off the end of the roof water channel. It looked to be either leaking just before the end of the channel or running back off the end right above the front edge of the door.

My drive is flat, this week I am parked on a different drive with about 12-15 degree slope and the vehicle is facing uphill.

After torrential rain there was a few drips and after some “normal” rain the door was completely dry.

This brings me back to that roof gutter. Clearly facing uphill the water didn’t get chance to drain off the front end !!

I haven’t noticed it on any other door apart from drivers door.

 

[Chadd7]

Update

When I initially saw this problem of collecting water between the door seals. I went out when it was raining and was suspicious of water coming off the end of the roof water channel. It looked to be either leaking just before the end of the channel or running back off the end right above the front edge of the door.

My drive is flat, this week I am parked on a different drive with about 12-15 degree slope and the vehicle is facing uphill.

After torrential rain there was a few drips and after some “normal” rain the door was completely dry.

This brings me back to that roof gutter. Clearly facing uphill the water didn’t get chance to drain off the front end !!

I haven’t noticed it on any other door apart from drivers door.

I agree. It looks like water that first enters at the top of the door, possibly along a roof channel/drain works it’s way down the door frame, where it should release to the ground but for some reason (maybe the seal is too good and/or it’s misplace/misaligned), so it collects between the inner/outer door seals.

I agree with you that the issue is likely at the top of the door. My old wrangler used to have this issue also and the angle I parked it also had an impact on how much water came in. This video identifies some trouble spots for the wrangler. I wonder if some experimenting with inexpensive weather stripping might remedy the IG or at least compare the trouble spots of the driver vs. passenger doors?

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKkfy6oxKEo

 

[bemax]

Great news!
I have explored new feature!
You can now have a flood line within your door frame to save the most epic Thunderstorms and floodings for the future generations.
I am thinking about putting small engraved brass signs next to each line with date and location.
Is it a good idea in your opinion?

 

[AWo]

I'll kep a notice for my memoirs: Grenadier owners use to have the same strange humor, or sarcasm, as Landy owners.

AWo

 

[Jean Mercier]

I'll kep a notice for my memoirs: Grenadier owners use to have the same strange humor, or sarcasm, as Landy owners.

AWo

I never owned a Land Rover, although I love the concept of that car ...
But I am happy to join the sarcasm club of the Grenadier