Useless Customer Service

[Jiman01]

The service reset is not within that menu; additionally, while I didn't ask it myself, I'm confident they will not be giving that out

You just have to find a person who knows and start feeding them beers and shots…they’ll talk

 

[anand]

You just have to find a person who knows and start feeding them beers and shots…they’ll talk

Now I have a goal...

 

[NQ94]

North QLD... isn't that a separate state now?

It's like a whole different colony.

 

[Skydance]

Ineos have warehouse only in 3 locations as you mention.
Belgium, North America and Australia.
Dealers however can hold as many spares as they want.

When my previous Mercedes needed spares I had to wait 4 weeks for a passenger door and a bonnet release latch to come from Germany.
At that stage my vehicle had been sold in Australia for 4 years.

My dealer said that they can’t return parts to Ineos if they have ordered by mistake. Often having spare unused parts. There is only so much inventory a dealer can hold due to costs. The parts are often DHL to the dealers which can take several days from Belgium. Unlike major manufacturers (BMW) where most parts are available next day.

 

[anand]

My dealer said that they can’t return parts to Ineos if they have ordered by mistake. Often having spare unused parts. There is only so much inventory a dealer can hold due to costs. The parts are often DHL to the dealers which can take several days from Belgium. Unlike major manufacturers (BMW) where most parts are available next day.

Interesting, this is vastly different than the US where we have our own parts distribution warehouse, of course some stuff still ships from Europe (as with any European manufacturer), but most is stocked here and to the dealer in a day or two

 

[Skydance]

Interesting, this is vastly different than the US where we have our own parts distribution warehouse, of course some stuff still ships from Europe (as with any European manufacturer), but most is stocked here and to the dealer in a day or two

Imagine the custom and shipping charges for each item if we don’t have a UK distribution centre. No wonder parts and insurance is so expensive.

 

[Shaky]

If you want to understand further UK insurance and why all of our renewals are going up then watch this video and if you don’t watch any further just see what damage the 4yr old Defender suffered for it to be deemed at write off. The guy rebuilds it and you won’t believe where he gets the parts from and how much it costs !! For reference a new shape defender of that age is worth around £50k.

View: https://youtu.be/Vh2PFRO1x1A?si=nTqVrsLmnC5II-v-


Think it was another YouTube video where it is claimed that insurance companies are starting to use AI to assess vehicle damage and decide if it is repaired or not.

 

[NQ94]

If you want to understand further UK insurance and why all of our renewals are going up then watch this video and if you don’t watch any further just see what damage the 4yr old Defender suffered for it to be deemed at write off. The guy rebuilds it and you won’t believe where he gets the parts from and how much it costs !! For reference a new shape defender of that age is worth around £50k.

View: https://youtu.be/Vh2PFRO1x1A?si=nTqVrsLmnC5II-v-


Think it was another YouTube video where it is claimed that insurance companies are starting to use AI to assess vehicle damage and decide if it is repaired or not.

Australia must be following the UK lead and writing cars off for very little damage. In Australia they make a car a statutory write off with minimum damage only good for spare parts, cannot reuse the chassis VIN even if there is nothing wrong with the chassis up to 15 years old. We do have repairable write off but to get to the point of registration the car's finished inspection criteria is so strict the car is better than when it left the factory and could be entered into a concourse event. We cannot use undamaged statutory write off chassis to make better and safer hot rods relegating us to old chassis. Yet it is ok to rebuild/rebirth some old classic rusted or extensively damaged heap from as much as a door handle and put it on the road with a bigger engine and same old crappy brakes.

 

[Clark Kent]

Australia must be following the UK lead and writing cars off for very little damage. In Australia they make a car a statutory write off with minimum damage only good for spare parts, cannot reuse the chassis VIN even if there is nothing wrong with the chassis up to 15 years old. We do have repairable write off but to get to the point of registration the car's finished inspection criteria is so strict the car is better than when it left the factory and could be entered into a concourse event. We cannot use undamaged statutory write off chassis to make better and safer hot rods relegating us to old chassis. Yet it is ok to rebuild/rebirth some old classic rusted or extensively damaged heap from as much as a door handle and put it on the road with a bigger engine and same old crappy brakes.

[Australia]

In the past few years I had a Subaru Outback and Forester both off the road for 3 and 4 months respectively waiting for repair parts from Japan after relatively minor road accidents. The longest delay was for a Forester shock absorber. Both cars were under 3 years old and the accidents were caused by the other driver.

Because I was not at-fault I was given a free rental car in both cases by my insurer. The cost of the rentals for the 3 and 4 months exceeded the repair costs. My insurer paid for the repairs and rentals but had to take legal action against the other driver's insurer to recover the full claim costs because of the rental fees.

I can see how this scenario could lead to an unexpected repairable write-off decision. The combined cost to repair and return the vehicle to the owner, inclusive of rental fees and potential legal action, would sway a decision in favour of paying out the policy and selling off the damaged vehicle as a repairable write-off or high value salvage parts.
I was contacted by my insurer's legal representative both times and informed I might need to attend court to help my insurer get their money back. That didn't eventuate but the claims stayed open for months after I got the vehicles back due to the ongoing legal action between insurers.

Insurance policy holders will be paying for this scenario through higher premiums.

 

[Catpaw4x4]

Rugged off roader or not, it still, unfortunately, has to follow regulations for warnings... Although I understand what you're saying.

I wouldn't put off the Ineos response as simply "they have chosen to do nothing". My following statements aren't attempting to justify the corporate decision of shipping a vehicle with the current software options, but there are other brands that have followed the same process of not having an end-user clearable service indicator in their vehicles. For some of those other brands, which almost certainly sell more vehicles annually, the aftermarket has stepped in to create tools to handle that need (just like with TPMS). For the many companies that create such tools, it is a fairly easy transition when a new model is released, as the car brand sells a wide number of vehicles that use the same factory scan tool. This lowers the overall cost of development and increases the potential return. Ineos does not use a scan tool from a different pre-existing vehicle brand (it uses Bosch Grade-X), and given the low volume of vehicles produced, decreases the likelihood that an aftermarket software company will invest the time into developing tools for it.

Additionally, I believe there are folks at Ineos that understand there is a desire (perhaps some would say a need?) for an end-user service reset, so who knows what will come in the future. These vehicles have been in owner's hands for just over a year globally, there will inevitably be changes coming down the line for all sorts of things that are realized and brought up. IMO, expecting these changes to occur within 3-6 months of being verbalized is unrealistic given the channels and processes required for any global change, especially one that isn't categorized as "essential"

I would like to add that while a service manual was promoted during early phases of marketing, it is unrealistic to expect a brand new company with a brand new vehicle to offer one so soon. Ineos needs the feedback that their authorized service centers can provide - more neutral territory than what could show up on Social media with all of its negativity over a problem that the DIY owner repair that wasn't handled correctly. I know there are so many knowledgeable mechanically minded people on this forum. The potential damage done to the vehicle reputation by an unknowledgeable well intended individual could sink us all for the future of this vehicle. The manual was not promised upon delivery of the vehicle.
No one at Ineos forced any of us to purchase this car. We elected to knowing the distances to service centers as those places were announced prior to vehicles being delivered. IA is a brand new company. Other auto manufactures have been around for decades. We all knew this going into purchasing this vehicle.

 

[shiv.nandak]

If you think this is bad, wait till you find out that you can't even rotate the tires without the dealer reprogramming the tpms. I couldn't believe it... really I thought it was a joke at first. They expect me to drive 5 hrs for a tire rotation.

 

[bigleonski]

If you think this is bad, wait till you find out that you can't even rotate the tires without the dealer reprogramming the tpms. I couldn't believe it... really I thought it was a joke at first. They expect me to drive 5 hrs for a tire rotation.

I thought that was a bit average, but then put it into perspective.

At the end of the day, who really cares if the screen shows the wrong wheel. At the end of the day it’s a safety service, that will alert you to the fact one of your tyres has suffered a loss of pressure, and therefore has saved you from potentially destroying a tyre, or even better saved an accident.

I think if the cost of that is having to get out and look to see which tyre is flat, I can probably live with the perceived inconvenience.

 

[BroncoBilly]

Don't you dare change your own oil or change out a flat tire. We've come a long way from an onboard service manual and direct ordering of repair parts from ineos with delivery via courier enabling roadside repairs. I was quite disappointed that Ineos lost my day one reservation order and the requisite delay of my dealer having to reorder to get my exact spec. The longer the wait goes on the more I'm learning and the more fortunate I feel.

 

[landmannnn]

Australia must be following the UK lead and writing cars off for very little damage. In Australia they make a car a statutory write off with minimum damage only good for spare parts, cannot reuse the chassis VIN even if there is nothing wrong with the chassis up to 15 years old. We do have repairable write off but to get to the point of registration the car's finished inspection criteria is so strict the car is better than when it left the factory and could be entered into a concourse event. We cannot use undamaged statutory write off chassis to make better and safer hot rods relegating us to old chassis. Yet it is ok to rebuild/rebirth some old classic rusted or extensively damaged heap from as much as a door handle and put it on the road with a bigger engine and same old crappy brakes.

The other factor being EVs, any damage to a battery pack will write the vehicle off.
Even if you don't drive one, if you hit one it is going to be your insurance that pays up.

 

[terdrocket]

I thought that was a bit average, but then put it into perspective.

At the end of the day, who really cares if the screen shows the wrong wheel. At the end of the day it’s a safety service, that will alert you to the fact one of your tyres has suffered a loss of pressure, and therefore has saved you from potentially destroying a tyre, or even better saved an accident.

I think if the cost of that is having to get out and look to see which tyre is flat, I can probably live with the perceived inconvenience.

Yes. On my LC200, it just displays a vertical list of 5 tire pressures. When I perform a 5 tire rotation, the order of the list simply changes. I am not worried when the Grenadier will show me the wrong position, because I will have rotated them and know which tire it is.

 

[Zimm]

Don't you dare change your own oil or change out a flat tire. We've come a long way from an onboard service manual and direct ordering of repair parts from ineos with delivery via courier enabling roadside repairs. I was quite disappointed that Ineos lost my day one reservation order and the requisite delay of my dealer having to reorder to get my exact spec. The longer the wait goes on the more I'm learning and the more fortunate I feel.

Like I tell my engineer, Sometimes the best customer, is the one we lose. Not every attractive job is a winner in the end.

 

[Zimm]

If you think this is bad, wait till you find out that you can't even rotate the tires without the dealer reprogramming the tpms. I couldn't believe it... really I thought it was a joke at first. They expect me to drive 5 hrs for a tire rotation.

I gotta tell ya, I'd be nuts right now about that.

 

[shiv.nandak]

I thought that was a bit average, but then put it into perspective.

At the end of the day, who really cares if the screen shows the wrong wheel. At the end of the day it’s a safety service, that will alert you to the fact one of your tyres has suffered a loss of pressure, and therefore has saved you from potentially destroying a tyre, or even better saved an accident.

I think if the cost of that is having to get out and look to see which tyre is flat, I can probably live with the perceived inconvenience.

I understand your perspective, this specific issue is an annoyance but I can live with it. But it is frustrating considering Ineos is definitely aware that most of the customer base live many hours away from the closest dealer. How many more avoidable issues are we going to find? The Grenadier itself is so good, I wish Ineos would get its act together regarding servicablity.

 

[Shaky]

I find all this as annoying as the next owner, and sometimes I wish I hadn’t bought the thing, then I drive it and enjoy it so much. However I honestly think that once a company eventually breaks into the operating system and can communicate with it, then all this crap will be a distant memory.

If that is with the blessing of IA or not I don’t really care, as they are their own worst enemy IMHO, but it will be nice to either be able to plug your own device in or go to an independent garage tech who can plug in an all singing and dancing box and sort it in a few mins.

Hopefully this isn’t in 5yrs time and comes just a bit quicker

edit - I see sir Jim has given the staff at Manchester United an ultimatum around working from home…work from the office or hand in your notice. I wish he would walk into the IA HQ and give them a similar one….buck your ideas up or f**K off.

 

[IslandFalconer]

Well I guess my worry about the mileage clicking by and the service indicator won’t be a problem. My odometer seems to have decided it has a problem.