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Useless Customer Service

DaveB

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UK service dealers are not allowed to use any parts other than Ineos parts and I was stated that using any other part would Jodie my warranty. It would help if Ineos held spares in the same country as the vehicles are sold. Ineos only have some parts in Belgium, if not in stock then you might be unlucky and have to wait over a month!!!!
Ineos have warehouse only in 3 locations as you mention.
Belgium, North America and Australia.
Dealers however can hold as many spares as they want.

When my previous Mercedes needed spares I had to wait 4 weeks for a passenger door and a bonnet release latch to come from Germany.
At that stage my vehicle had been sold in Australia for 4 years.
 

anand

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And what have they said to you? I’d love to know. Because the words “ignore” and “annoying” were tossed at me several times. I would absolutely love to know what concerns you covered with them and the response you got. I have described exactly what I’ve been through. You have not described one single issue you’ve raised or what comments were made.
I'll preface the rest of this post by saying that I worked in the automotive aftermarket (for an independent performance/service shop) for almost two decades, so I have an appreciation for both sides of the conversation when it comes to customer service, modifications, etc.

I don't have any complaints that I feel are worth raising with Ineos Automotive, let alone the Americas division. I recognize that they are a (rapidly) growing company here in the Americas (they have over twice the staff now that they did a year ago) with important milestones (and inevitably hurdles) to achieve in their processes. I also understand that no one in the Americas can force a global change, and in the end, can only go so far for regional support as any vehicle changes or large scale decisions must happen at the Home Office (including, but not limited to the gripes aired in this thread and others).

This isn't to say that I think the Grenadier is perfect or without things that I wish were different.

Do I wish that the ADAS and auto start/stop settings were persistent between ignition cycles? Yes, but spending 5 seconds pushing 2 buttons and two presses on the screen if it irritates me is a laughably trivial interruption to my day (this afternoon I had 10 start/stop cycles as I was out running errands, and it was never annoying). Perhaps sometime in the next 1-2 years an aftermarket solution will exist, at which time I'll probably buy it; if it doesn't, not a big deal to me.

Do I wish I didn't have to reprogram TPMS sensors when rotating tires? Absolutely, but since I don't personally like dealer visits, I simply bought the tool to reprogram my aftermarket sensors myself, sure it was $200, but I've spent $200 on much less useful things. There is far less headache in buying the tool to do it myself than to try to question an engineer's choice in system design, especially when anyone I could possibly chat with has no connection to the decision that was made.

Do I wish I could do a few menu presses to reset the service reminder like my previous Toyotas? 100%, but this isn't a problem with the vehicle, it is an annoyance, and as above with the TPMS, a decision that was made by a person or persons that no average customer will ever be able to directly speak with for an answer. Was it intentionally malicious in an effort to require people to drive hours to a dealer? Highly unlikely

In the grand scope of a new car company with a brand new vehicle, these issues are minimal at best; I've purchased well established models from brands that have been around much longer that have yielded far more problems and frustrations... One instance was being told the reason my 2 day old VW GTI's left turn signal and sunroof stopped working was the radar detector plugged into the 12v outlet and that my warranty was now "void", only to find out it was the dealer being difficult/lazy (the dealer that, at the time, the shop I worked for got 2 parts deliveries a day from, 5 days a week, and was our primary source of VW OEM parts; not to mention we had purchased 2 new GTI's in a week from them).

Personally, I feel that everyone that has purchased a Grenadier is responsible for considering the due diligence of purchasing a new car from a new car company with an (expectedly) limited dealer network. For some (many?) this investigation could prove to outweigh any positives of ownership, and I think that is an absolutely adequate assessment to make.

Of the dozen plus vehicles I've owned over the past 23 years, there is no other vehicle that I have firmly been able to say "isn't for everyone" like I can for the Grenadier.
 

Clark Kent

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And what have they said to you? I’d love to know. Because the words “ignore” and “annoying” were tossed at me several times. I would absolutely love to know what concerns you covered with them and the response you got. I have described exactly what I’ve been through. You have not described one single issue you’ve raised or what comments were made.
@IslandFalconer I think everyone here gets that you're *issed at Ineos Automotive but why direct your rage at every person who tries to contribute, particularly when you don't know their background, experience or history in the Grenadier program?

If your agenda is to draw attention to the service reminder issue with the IA leadership team then more power to you. Aggression towards other forum members who have the same problem is not constructive.

As to your point about the distance to your closest service centre: You choose to live on PEI. IA chose to establish an agency where there was a suitable vendor and customer/interest base. As an industry professional you would have considered servicing and warranty support before you bought into the Grenadier program yet you seem to hold IA to account for not being closer to you. I don't think that's rational. I'm not dismissing your point but as Greg Clark said in his email you're probably their first customer on PEI.
As the brand and customer base grows and the vehicle matures hopefully you will see a service centre in Ottawa or Quebec.

I'm optimistic that the service reminder reset will get addressed in a future software update. Many customers are remote from a service centre and this issue will gain attention as the global fleet accrues miles/km.
Meanwhile, @Jean Mercier has posted a temporary workaround to clear the service reminder per trip. It's not a fix but it's something you can do to push the message off the screen.

Enjoy your vehicle.
 

DaveB

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That gets you absolutely nowhere.
That's disappointing.
I rang the one on the bottom of the Australian website and got through to Mark in the UK very quickly.
He confirmed my name and as he had my mobile number on his display he had all the details of my vehicle in front of him.
We chatted about the weather and other bullshit and then he listened to my problem.
He gave me a case number that he said everyone, including the dealers would be able to see.
He couldn't answer my problem at the time but told me he knew which engineer to contact and would get back to me in two days. (As he was off work until then)
He called me back as promised on Sunday afternoon.
Again we chatted nicely and included some more bullshit about life etc.

I am also pretty active on LinkedIn and have had several messages with Justin Hocevar and Tom Smith before he went to Ford
 

IslandFalconer

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@IslandFalconer I think everyone here gets that you're *issed at Ineos Automotive but why direct your rage at every person who tries to contribute, particularly when you don't know their background, experience or history in the Grenadier program?

If your agenda is to draw attention to the service reminder issue with the IA leadership team then more power to you. Aggression towards other forum members who have the same problem is not constructive.

As to your point about the distance to your closest service centre: You choose to live on PEI. IA chose to establish an agency where there was a suitable vendor and customer/interest base. As an industry professional you would have considered servicing and warranty support before you bought into the Grenadier program yet you seem to hold IA to account for not being closer to you. I don't think that's rational. I'm not dismissing your point but as Greg Clark said in his email you're probably their first customer on PEI.
As the brand and customer base grows and the vehicle matures hopefully you will see a service centre in Ottawa or Quebec.

I'm optimistic that the service reminder reset will get addressed in a future software update. Many customers are remote from a service centre and this issue will gain attention as the global fleet accrues miles/km.
Meanwhile, @Jean Mercier has posted a temporary workaround to clear the service reminder per trip. It's not a fix but it's something you can do to push the message off the screen.

Enjoy your vehicle.
My anger or more my frustration with forum members is their lack of constructive conversation or not reading the post at all. I freaking well knew how far the dealer was. Never worried about repair or warranty. As that’s a non issue. I can fix it. I have access to everything I need to keep the rig running. I have issue with a company making it impossible to reset a service reminder. I have issue with the fact Ineos doesn’t care about the issue. I take real issue when people post completely false statements that are common sense in the industry and have been for years. Like “warranty void if you service your vehicle” that’s flat out wrong. I’ve owned and still own many vehicles I’m active on a lot of forums. It baffles me that the Ineos owners seem so passive about the problems they are having. 100k for a truck is nothing to shake your finger at. And yet everyone seems happy go lucky about it. Meanwhile when my M2 has an issue the dealership sends someone to fetch it. I don’t even need to ask. The service standard at Ineos are clearly poor. Like very poor, leaking roofs unresolved. People wanting to add a hitch and can’t like seriously. Why is it every one is so content to find “work arounds” and think oh well someday someone might fix it NBD. My frustration is with that attitude. There’s no urgency from Ineos, and if all the grenadier owners are as passive or happy go lucky as everyone here well we know exactly how quickly anything will get resolved.

I haven’t bitched about my door seals falling off I fixed it same day. Doesn’t bother me one bit.

I’m annoyed that something as simple as a service indicator is locked out and that maybe a few members are as annoyed as me. The rest are happy to tell me how to change my own oil, or how to press buttons to make it go away. Why no one seems to find this complete BS I don’t know. But this is my work truck 100k a year is about the distance it travels. So in your minds I should be happy to travel 3500km 4X a year to turn off a reminder. In what world did Ineos think that under serviced countries should be locked in to the dealership for something this trivial.
 

IslandFalconer

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I hear you and can empathize. I don’t have my truck yet and these stories make me consider taking a pass until IG gets their stuff straight.

Question. On your M4, can you clear/reset the service reminder at home? Do you have to buy a diagnostic tool to do it?
I can reset it with nothing but my fingers. It’s as easy as push the start stop button three times, hold down the menus key, cycle to oil change, or transmission service, or break fluid service and reset. It’s that easy, no special tools no laptops no handheld devices.
 

IslandFalconer

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If in fact a certain amount of the Grenadier's software was developed by nationals of a country whose oppressive government owns all intellectual property, it doesn't surprise me in the least that all these problems have arisen.
This makes a lot of sense. Designed by engineers who make it difficult by design. As you said they live in a country where the government demands it.
 

grnamin

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This makes a lot of sense. Designed by engineers who make it difficult by design. As you said they live in a country where the government demands it.
Plus whatever intellectual property the customer thinks it owns, the hostile government claims all the rights to.
 

Clark Kent

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My anger or more my frustration with forum members is their lack of constructive conversation or not reading the post at all. I freaking well knew how far the dealer was. Never worried about repair or warranty. As that’s a non issue. I can fix it. I have access to everything I need to keep the rig running. I have issue with a company making it impossible to reset a service reminder. I have issue with the fact Ineos doesn’t care about the issue. I take real issue when people post completely false statements that are common sense in the industry and have been for years. Like “warranty void if you service your vehicle” that’s flat out wrong. I’ve owned and still own many vehicles I’m active on a lot of forums. It baffles me that the Ineos owners seem so passive about the problems they are having. 100k for a truck is nothing to shake your finger at. And yet everyone seems happy go lucky about it. Meanwhile when my M2 has an issue the dealership sends someone to fetch it. I don’t even need to ask. The service standard at Ineos are clearly poor. Like very poor, leaking roofs unresolved. People wanting to add a hitch and can’t like seriously. Why is it every one is so content to find “work arounds” and think oh well someday someone might fix it NBD. My frustration is with that attitude. There’s no urgency from Ineos, and if all the grenadier owners are as passive or happy go lucky as everyone here well we know exactly how quickly anything will get resolved.

I haven’t bitched about my door seals falling off I fixed it same day. Doesn’t bother me one bit.

I’m annoyed that something as simple as a service indicator is locked out and that maybe a few members are as annoyed as me. The rest are happy to tell me how to change my own oil, or how to press buttons to make it go away. Why no one seems to find this complete BS I don’t know. But this is my work truck 100k a year is about the distance it travels. So in your minds I should be happy to travel 3500km 4X a year to turn off a reminder. In what world did Ineos think that under serviced countries should be locked in to the dealership for something this trivial.
Well at least you didn't attack me!

I don't think anyone is happy with IA's performance overall. If you watch Robert Pepper's 4-part YouTube interview with Justin Hocevar (APAC head for IA), you'll hear that IA leadership are well aware of their failings caused in part by an overly optimistic startup in multiple markets with inadequate resources to back it up.

I'm not drinking the IA Kool-Aid. I trained as a technician then left the automotive industry in the '80s. I have spent the past 35 years in aircraft engineering and platform sustainment so I have a bit of an idea about product support and the importance of getting things right (you cannot park an aircraft on a cloud).

Despite their shaky start, I recognise that Ineos have concurrently built a new car company alongside a new vehicle so I am prepared to ride out some of their missteps while they sort their *hit out. You take a different view and that's 100% ok.

I dunno about any conscious effort by IA to lock this feature out. A wise old Director/mentor of mine was fond of saying:
"Never give people credit for organising a conspiracy for something that is clearly an old fashioned *uck-up".
 

IslandFalconer

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Well at least you didn't attack me!

I don't think anyone is happy with IA's performance overall. If you watch Robert Pepper's 4-part YouTube interview with Justin Hocevar (APAC head for IA), you'll hear that IA leadership are well aware of their failings caused in part by an overly optimistic startup in multiple markets with inadequate resources to back it up.

I'm not drinking the IA Kool-Aid. I trained as a technician then left the automotive industry in the '80s. I have spent the past 35 years in aircraft engineering and platform sustainment so I have a bit of an idea about product support and the importance of getting things right (you cannot park an aircraft on a cloud).

Despite their shaky start, I recognise that Ineos have concurrently built a new car company alongside a new vehicle so I am prepared to ride out some of their missteps while they sort their *hit out. You take a different view and that's 100% ok.

I dunno about any conscious effort by IA to lock this feature out. A wise old Director/mentor of mine was fond of saying:
"Never give people credit for organising a conspiracy for something that is clearly an old fashioned *uck-up".
I was in the industry from service tech all the way to fixed operations manager. About 28 years. I would go to the ends of the earth for my customers. And I’ve fought with Mercedes for my customers. If this is an unintentional FU UP or not isn’t so much the point. It’s the lack of actual acknowledgement that it’s a FU UP or even a word on finding a resolution. If someone would just come out and say “Yes we Fu UP, yes we are working on it” I could swallow it. But the BS of “I passed it on to engineering” is a non starter. Just one more in a list of things to get to. There’s no urgency. Just we might get to it.
 

Jiman01

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I can reset it with nothing but my fingers. It’s as easy as push the start stop button three times, hold down the menus key, cycle to oil change, or transmission service, or break fluid service and reset. It’s that easy, no special tools no laptops no handheld devices.
As you probably already guessed, I was asking that question because, whatever reason IG has makes even less sense if a big box brand like BMW allows individual owners to reset their service reminder.

BTW: Did anyone who went to overland expo get an answer, or ask the question, regarding the passcode for the “hidden menu”? Perhaps the solution is within🤷🏻‍♂️

Pic courtesy of @terdrocket:
View attachment IMG_2266.jpeg
 

anand

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BTW: Did anyone who went to overland expo get an answer, or ask the question, regarding the passcode for the “hidden menu”? Perhaps the solution is within🤷🏻‍♂️
The service reset is not within that menu; additionally, while I didn't ask it myself, I'm confident they will not be giving that out
 

Zak Smith

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IMO, expecting these changes to occur within 3-6 months of being verbalized is unrealistic

No. It is professional negligence to have released the vehicle without its "OS software" able to do these basic functions. It's not like the situation was unpredictable-- the vehicle was advertised as end-user serviceable, more than the average car.
 

trobex

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I was in the industry from service tech all the way to fixed operations manager. About 28 years. I would go to the ends of the earth for my customers. And I’ve fought with Mercedes for my customers. If this is an unintentional FU UP or not isn’t so much the point. It’s the lack of actual acknowledgement that it’s a FU UP or even a word on finding a resolution. If someone would just come out and say “Yes we Fu UP, yes we are working on it” I could swallow it. But the BS of “I passed it on to engineering” is a non starter. Just one more in a list of things to get to. There’s no urgency. Just we might get to it.
This is the point. Head in the sand by IA won't make issues go away.
 

trobex

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No. It is professional negligence to have released the vehicle without its "OS software" able to do these basic functions. It's not like the situation was unpredictable-- the vehicle was advertised as end-user serviceable, more than the average car.
I'm still waiting for promised manuals.
 
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