Kinda -
The summary so far:
Americans are upset and expected it to be cheaper. Some are dropping out but it’s not clear if it’s any more/less than the 50% expected. Americans are actually getting the same value for money as the Australians more or less. So whatever happened after the announcement in Australia is likely to similarly happen in America. There are 330 million of them after all - surely a few thousand will proceed with purchase.
Canadians got more of a sticker shock and we spent all our money on pointy sticks to fend off the polar bears, so we don’t have the same “it’s the same as Australia” value proposition here and the Gren is looking like it’ll cost a lot more loonies here than we expected. There will likely be more attrition in Canada, but TBD.
And South Africans are getting the best deal on Big Macs, and some people prefer Porches to Civics and vise versa.
How’d I do with that summary of 30 pages, gents?
Great and thorough post. That was a good read. One thing didn't really make sense to me though: you mentioned that you feel cramped sometimes in the 4-Runner, and that you are strongly considering the Grenadier as an alternative. We own a 4-Runner and I sat in the Grenadier for quite a while back in August 2022, and I drove it twice in April 2023. The Grenadier is notably less spacious than the 4-Runner. The driver's seat is roomier in the 4-Runner (seat width, shoulder room, elbow-room), and the passenger seat is much roomier (especially in the foot-well). I've posted comparison pictures in the past, and won't do that again. Just curious what you are thinking as I know you are a pretty thoughtful and calculating guy.
Thanks
@ChasingOurTrunks and
@stickshifter
Let me expand on my 4Runner thoughts..perhaps I should have been more specific
While I didn’t measure the exact dimensions of the driver seat in the 4Runner.. the interior width and driver foot well space seem to be on par with the Gren. I think the Gren feels a bit snug because of the Recaro’s which not only bolster well but also have excellent thigh support. The 4R always felt a bit short on seat comfort for me..mainly because the seat is flatter and not as bolstered.
Secondly, what got me with the 4R was the shorter headroom. I am blessed with a longer torso. I am also a bit biased here, I currently drive a pre-MBUsa G-Wagen, and while dimensionally it is smaller than the 4R and Gren, it feels and is quite spacious internally. Mostly because the 1997 regulations for safety are not the same as modern standards..but also because the design is a lot more simple and elementary. The Gren is definitely better than the 4R in terms of headroom but the G-Wagen is even better than the Gren.
Thirdly, I think the 4R has a higher ‘belt line’ than the Grenadier..so you sit a bit more in the car rather than high up on it..if you know what I mean. The best way to illustrate that is where does the window sill line-up with your body when you sit? At the waist or around the rib cage? Land Rovers in the past have always touted their command driving position..basically it’s the belt line that makes it feel so. Grenadier and G-Wagon have a lower belt line than the 4Runner.
I didn’t sit in the passenger seat of the 4R and Gren and compare..but
@stickshifter you point is correct there. The ‘hump’ in the Gren will definitely reduce foot room vs. 4R.
Now looking at the space behind the front row. What actually I like in the 4R (and the LC200) is that there is a proper 72” of length from the drivers seat back to the tail gate..with the driver/ passenger seat at a comfortable driving position. The Gren (and my G-Wagen) have only 65-68”. This means for an interior sleeping setup that accommodates my 6’ frame, I need to move the seats when I camp, have a 8-12” foldout section of the bed.
Last point, objectively the reduced headroom of the 4R also translated to a lower floor to ceiling height in the cargo area. If memory serves me right its 39” for the 4R, 42” for the Gren and 47” for my G-Wagen. So if you want to have a drawer setup (10” in height) where you can also sit inside during bad weather or just lounge, the 4R is too tight, Gren is just OK and the G-Wagen is quite good.
Again all these points are very subjective to my body dimensions, my perception and my specific build + travel needs. In fact the Grenadier can’t still hold a candle to my G-Wagen when it comes to visibility. When I sat in the Grenadier at a comfortable seating position, my eye line was just at or above the top of the driver side window. So I had to bend down just a fraction to see behind when switching lanes kind of scenario.
if there is more than one cost.
).
. So the real consternation comes from the unknown pricing due to possible dealer mark up. Since Ineos dealers have not existed, nor have been announced, they have not contributed in anyway to my Grenadier experience or decision making. I'll likely have to make my purchase decision without knowing this vital info so it throws an unfortunate wrench into the equation. Optimistically, I would like to think that the higher relative pricing in the US is there to actually cover the dealers mark up during their start up with the brand. Then after the initial orders from the reservation pool, the more traditional dealer process (test drives, Q&A, markup) can resume for better or worse. Fingers are crossed. If a dealer markup is inevitable, perhaps Ineos would feel compelled provide a rebate funded by their US pricing difference. One can dream, right?
