Tech Specs

[dominicperry]

[QUOTE username=OldCarSmell  ABBB userid=8889592 postid=1332265100]A lot of talk about tuning understandably, and perhaps some hypothetical as we all play around with the idea of this engine, but in reality, when the truck arrives, does anyone expect the warranty to be honored for the powertrain (or really for the whole vehicle) if it is tuned to function differently than manufacturer standard? I know for some that can afford it financially and have the know-how to perform all maintenance and repairs, a tune that negates warranty is a logical next step after purchase, but the rest of us? Is there any expectation that IG would allow for reprogramming of their systems? I highly doubt this but I’m not expert…[/QUOTE]

It's more about Ineos' claim that they are tuning the engine for torque. It seems to be the opinion here that there is no such thing, and what they really mean is de-tuning an existing engine to accommodate lower (i.e. standard) octane fuel. I'm not a tuning expert but surely it's possible to change quite a bunch of things  without modifications - primary ECU based - and alter injector timing (diesel) and ignition timing (petrol)? And if Ineos were prepared to pay, it would also be possible to take the standard engine but with altered cam profiles, or altered cam timing. It would also be possible to change the size, pitch and speed of turbo blades - and possibly change the size of inlet or outlet manifolds. Maybe none of these things would result in meaningful changes of torque, and maybe none of them would be affordable. Happy to be corrected.......

 

[emax]

A lot of motor characteristics depends on the camshaft, which in turn -amongst other parameters- has to harmonize with the fuel injection amount and timing. Power and torque at each individual revs-count are strictly depending on these settings.

Another important part is the design intake side / manifold and the exhaust system.

All these parts have to be orchestrated to deliver a as high as possible degree of charge within a range of revs which can be quite narrow for high performance engines and is usually broader for engines which are balanced with more emphasis on torque. The reason is that the entire system is a resonator and each resonating system has a limited resonation range which finally is the optimal operating range depending on what the designer tried to achieve.  Lower revs means lower fequencies and lower fequencies allow for more time to fill a cyclinder. Better fill = more torque. With less time, one can of course increase airspeed in manifold and exhaust system. But this raises unwanted side-effects, is harder to control and induces unwanted drag.

So it absolutely makes sense to "tune" an engine for more torque or more power.  And at high revs, the resonance range for the optimal filling of the cylinders is of course smaller than at low revs.  And even turbo-loaded, though the variables are different, the equation is not much different. All in all, turbos deliver higher power but as to the rest only the performance level is higher whilst the problems are (mostly) the same.

 

[d1rty]

To a certain extent, you can tune an engine for more low end torque. Varying turbo size and number etc would change at what RPM power comes in, Maybe that's what they're referring to?

Absolutely, you *can* tune an engine for more torque.  Does anyone here think that BWM bothered to spend the non-recurring engineering hours and parts sourcing for new turbos and such for a 3rd party that wants to sell maybe 20k units annually during a GREAT year?  Did the engine gain torque as compared to the high HP, high-octan variant?

Of course not.

They remapped the boost and fuel curves in software with no hardware changes so it will run on crappy "87" octane in Ouagadougou.  And I'm fine with that.  Heck, if I had to put premium/super unleaded in a truck, it would probably make me reconsider.  But enough with the "re-tuned" for torque nonsense.  Again, directed at the marketing types, not anyone on this board.

 

[emax]

I  don't know what BMW has done.

But in a dying market due to a climate hysteria that is getting completely out of control, I can imagine that selling another 20000 Diesel engines per year and thus making profit with an otherwise dead product from the shelf could be a reason for a comparably small additional investment.

 

[DaveB]

I am only interested in the diesel not the petrol version.
I seem to recall a comment in one of the video's where they said it had 500nm of torque but they were planning on taking that to 550nm for the production model.
You can guarantee the diesel tuners will have upgrades available in no time, thanks to the fact the engine has been around for a fair while already. 
I had a Mazda BT50 and had a bit of trouble with the engine, the first thing Mazda checked was to see if there were any modifications to the engine/exhaust. They quickly said that any mod would void my warranty. I think they spent more time checking for mods than trying to solve the issue.
Turned out to be a faulty crank position sensor.

 

[d1rty]

Bespoke "torque tuned" parts doesn't help the supply chain either, nevermind the cost to Ineos and BMW.  I'd be willing to wager quite a lot it's all the same parts as a regular B58, just a software de-tune for lower octane.

 

[DaveB]

They have the ability to play with the air intake, exhaust and software without changing a single part on the engine so that seems the most logical path to take.
B57D30T0  235 kW (315 hp) at 4,000 rpm    680 N⋅m (502 lb⋅ft) at 1,750–2,250 rpm  

 

[DenisM]

"Tuned for torque" simply means that the engine parameters have been tweaked to produce the "optimal" engine mapping which complements the 8sp automatic transmission for intended operating conditions with emphasis on having ample torque on hand at lower engine revs for heavy duty work... (Note... Ineos chose not to go with a trendy 8 sp dual clutch) . Modern diesel and  petrol  engines,  fire the injectors multiple times per compression stroke to optimise the combustion, reduce emissions and vibration. What had been removed from the Grenadier prototypes  for "drive days" was  a bank of telemetry equipment recording various parameters under the real world conditions of the test environment. An "engineer" at the drive day I attended said this engine mapping optimisation to account for "all "conditions was a large part of the testing regime as well testing parts for structural integrity/longevity.... the mapping is always a compromise to accommodate conditions at both ends of the "Bell curve"...
 

 

[DaveB]

"Tuned for torque" simply means that the engine parameters have been tweaked to produce the "optimal" engine mapping which complements the 8sp automatic transmission for intended operating conditions with emphasis on having ample torque on hand at lower engine revs for heavy duty work... (Note... Ineos chose not to go with a trendy 8 sp dual clutch) . Modern diesel and  petrol  engines,  fire the injectors multiple times per compression stroke to optimise the combustion, reduce emissions and vibration. What had been removed from the Grenadier prototypes  for "drive days" was  a bank of telemetry equipment recording various parameters under the real world conditions of the test environment. An "engineer" at the drive day I attended said this engine mapping optimisation to account for "all "conditions was a large part of the testing regime as well testing parts for structural integrity/longevity.... the mapping is always a compromise to accommodate conditions at both ends of the "Bell curve"...
 

When you look at the list of vehicles that BMW put the same diesel motor in none of them are anywhere near the same requirements as the Grenadier     

 

[Spjnr]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZwMhgg8COQ

Bit of info on the B58 for anyone still questioning this engines credentials

 

[DaveB]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkIF9ihvt44
Interesting video with dimensions and folding rear seat view

 

[DenisM]

Thanks DaveB ...informative video!

On the latest UK configurator, the covers over the rear wheel wells are more "box-like" than the sloping ones I saw in the prototype in Australia...  The prototype in the "Spanish" video above also slope. If the latest configurator photos are correct then the "box"shape will be far more practical in terms of a drawer fit out and efficient use of space. It's interesting...my 2019 Hyundai Santa Fe has marginally more room behind the second row of seats and the rear door.... I'm sure I'll adapt!

 

[Spjnr]

Thanks DaveB ...informative video!

On the latest UK configurator, the covers over the rear wheel wells are more "box-like" than the sloping ones I saw in the prototype in Australia...  The prototype in the "Spanish" video above also slope. If the latest configurator photos are correct then the "box"shape will be far more practical in terms of a drawer fit out and efficient use of space. It's interesting...my 2019 Hyundai Santa Fe has marginally more room behind the second row of seats and the rear door.... I'm sure I'll adapt!

[/QUOTE

Yeah i was told the final boot design was different to the 2B. 

 

[DaveB]

Thanks DaveB ...informative video!

On the latest UK configurator, the covers over the rear wheel wells are more "box-like" than the sloping ones I saw in the prototype in Australia...  The prototype in the "Spanish" video above also slope. If the latest configurator photos are correct then the "box"shape will be far more practical in terms of a drawer fit out and efficient use of space. It's interesting...my 2019 Hyundai Santa Fe has marginally more room behind the second row of seats and the rear door.... I'm sure I'll adapt!

My Mercedes C250 Coupe has a deeper boot 

 

[PL1]

Good video thanks.  Did anyone measure the height of the loadspace, from the floor to the headliner.  I forgot to do it when I saw the 2B prototype.  TIA.

 

[ADVAW8S]

I believe it's 42 inches and height of the door is 39 inches. 

 

[Paachi]

Some interior dimensions (which were important for me for building a sleeping platform) from the time when I saw the 2B prototype
- Height from cargo floor to ceiling: 42"
- Width of the cargo area: 42" (at the marrowest between wheel arches), 58" (at the upper plastic area below the window), 64" (gullwing to gullwing)
- From the back of the first row of seats to the inside of the rear door ~68"
the interior design might still get tweaked a bit. I did give them feedback that the wheel wells needs to be squared off. They eat too much into the load space. 

 

[mkennedy009]

I found these from 2015 when they released the engines (B57, B58), they are edited for US market. I could not find the updated versions, still an interesting read.

:edit:
found the latest on the B58 (B58TU)
https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2120404&d=1565745080 It would be great to get these improvements over the B58

 

[Spjnr]

[QUOTE username=Michael Kennedy  mkennedy009 userid=8949828 postid=1332367896]I found these from 2015 when they released the engines (B57, B58), they are edited for US market. I could not find the updated versions, still an interesting read.[/QUOTE][QUOTE username=Michael Kennedy  mkennedy009 userid=8949828 postid=1332367896]I found these from 2015 when they released the engines (B57, B58), they are edited for US market. I could not find the updated versions, still an interesting read.[/QUOTE]

interesting read, thanks for sharing

 

[dominicperry]

The diesel bulletin is more than twice the size of the petrol one. I expect that reflects additional components and complexity in the diesel engine.