Tech Specs

[emax]

As had been said already but for the ones which haven't watched the video: It wasn't about malfunction, they work as designed. But that's what it was about, the design. It implies that they disarm for up to half a wheel turn upon a fwd/bkwd direction change. This is something I could live with as I am not a technical offroader.

If I want lockers then I only want them to be able to finally get out of trouble.

I guess, whilst the Eatons design is propably not everybody's choice the quality is ok.

 

[d1rty]

With regards to pricing: for my Toyota fitment (Tundra), the differentials run about $1100 front and $1200 rear, from US online vendors - so figure another $100 in tax/shipping to an "at your shop" price.  But then you'll need a compressor ($320 or more for the ARB high output), a reservoir tank ($200, optional but really good idea), lines/fitting/etc.  I'd say if you're having the work done for you, a first rate job with all ARB parts, I'd say expect a bill at least $4k for the full treatment.

For me, the slight delay (less than half a wheel rotation) when locking the e-locker or when going from forward to reverse (and presumably vice versa) is offset by the added complexity - more stuff is more stuff to break, more stuff to fit into the engine bay or in/under the truck, and air lines that can degrade and leak over time.

I'm sure others will argue the other end, and I guess that's why the market provides both options.

I'll happily get the factor Eaton e-lockers.

 

[stickshifter]

On a different topic than lockers, Stellantis has finally released some info on their new 3.0 liter inline six-cylinder turbo-charged engine. I find this relevant because the B58 in the Grenadier (the only options coming to North America) has the same basic specs: I-6, 3.0 liter, turbo-charged.

From The Fast Lane Truck:
"The 3.0-liter Hurricane inline-six will arrive in Stellantis vehicles later this year, in two states of tune. The ‘SO’ (Standard Output) engine, per the company’s official statement, will put out “more than 400 horsepower” and 450 lb-ft of torque, per SAE standard J2723. The company notes it optimized the unit more for efficiency, with two smaller turbochargers, lower maximum boost pressure (22 psi) and a higher 10.4:1 compression ratio. The Hurricane SO engine can run on 87 octane fuel, though the automaker recommends premium for the best figures possible. The ‘HO’ — or High Output — engine will make “more than 500 horsepower”, and above 475 lb-ft of torque."

In comparison, the B58 - as spec'd for the Grenadier - generates 281 horsepower, and 332 lb-ft of torque. I'm certainly not interested in the HO version of the Hurricane - that is designed for vehicles like the Charger or Challenger, and the "sport" version of the Grand Cherokee. But the SO version of the Hurricane, making 400-plus HP, and 450 lb-ft of torque really puts the B58 to shame. If de-tuning means greater longevity, I'd take a hypothetical Hurricane making 350 HP and 400 lb-ft over the B58. Yes - I know - the Hurricane is brand new, and we know absolutely nothing about its reliability. But on paper, it trounces the B58, and I'm a bit baffled at the power discrepancy between the two. I remain pretty disappointed in the power specs for the Grenadier, given its weight (and price).

I know it is a totally different vehicle, but I'm taking a Power Wagon for a test drive tomorrow.
- 410 horsepower, and 429 lb-ft torque, from a naturally aspirated, reliable, V8: "In general, the 6.4 Hemi is a big reliable, American pushrod V8 engine with a factory warranty for five years or 100,000 miles" (Source: Motorreviewer). Of course, fuel economy is crap.
- electronic locking differentials front and rear
- manual transfer case
- ZF 8-speed automatic transmission
- heated seats AND heated steering wheel (this is a big plus for some of us)
- its big; sometimes this will be a detriment, and other times it will be great (like winter road trips that combine ice-climbing, tele skiing, skate skiing, and winter camping)
- payload is not great (around 1,600 pounds), but you can swap out the rear coil springs and increase practical payload to 2,000 pounds (not legal payload, so one still needs to stay within the limit set by the sticker in the door jam, but the truck will carry 1,500 pounds better and more safely with the stiffer springs)
- sticker price: $58,000 - which is about $12,000 less than the Grenadier - leaving plenty of cash for 35-inch tires and rear springs, and maybe brakes (the brakes on the Power Wagon, as I recall from a previous drive years ago, were not impressive)

I still love the idea of the Grenadier. It is a concept that I - and probably most of you - have dreamed about for years. If the longer wheelbase station wagon were coming sooner, and with better power, I'd wait for sure. As currently spec'd (size, power, price) I'm not convinced that the Grenadier is for me. Tough call...

 

[Michael Gain]

I know it is a totally different vehicle, but I'm taking a Power Wagon for a test drive tomorrow.
- 410 horsepower, and 429 lb-ft torque, from a naturally aspirated, reliable, V8: "In general, the 6.4 Hemi is a big reliable, American pushrod V8 engine with a factory warranty for five years or 100,000 miles" (Source: Motorreviewer). Of course, fuel economy is crap.
- electronic locking differentials front and rear
- manual transfer case
- ZF 8-speed automatic transmission
- heated seats AND heated steering wheel (this is a big plus for some of us)
- its big; sometimes this will be a detriment, and other times it will be great (like winter road trips that combine ice-climbing, tele skiing, skate skiing, and winter camping)
- payload is not great (around 1,600 pounds), but you can swap out the rear coil springs and increase practical payload to 2,000 pounds (not legal payload, so one still needs to stay within the limit set by the sticker in the door jam, but the truck will carry 1,500 pounds better and more safely with the stiffer springs)
- sticker price: $58,000 - which is about $12,000 less than the Grenadier - leaving plenty of cash for 35-inch tires and rear springs, and maybe brakes (the brakes on the Power Wagon, as I recall from a previous drive years ago, were not impressive)

I still love the idea of the Grenadier. It is a concept that I - and probably most of you - have dreamed about for years. If the longer wheelbase station wagon were coming sooner, and with better power, I'd wait for sure. As currently spec'd (size, power, price) I'm not convinced that the Grenadier is for me. Tough call...

I think you will really like the power wagon. I have a 75th anniversary PW, and even with its quirks, I absolutely would not trade it for anything.

As you stated, the grenadier and PW have different purposes. Personally, we will have both. The grenadier will be my wife's DD, and the family adventure mobile. The PW will be the work horse, and take us to those places where she is uncomfortable taking the grenadier (even if it is more than capable).

Enjoy the test drive and let me know if you have any questions.

 

[stickshifter]

[QUOTE username=Michael Gain userid=8442400 postid=1332184784]

I think you will really like the power wagon. I have a 75th anniversary PW, and even with its quirks, I absolutely would not trade it for anything.

As you stated, the grenadier and PW have different purposes. Personally, we will have both. The grenadier will be my wife's DD, and the family adventure mobile. The PW will be the work horse, and take us to those places where she is uncomfortable taking the grenadier (even if it is more than capable).

Enjoy the test drive and let me know if you have any questions.[/QUOTE]
Thanks Michael! That sounds like the perfect combo of vehicles. My wife drives a 4Runner, but I know she’d prefer the all-wheel drive of the Grenadier, 8 speeds instead of 5, and the turbo 3.0 will perform better than the NA 4.0 up here at high elevation. I’m certainly keeping my Grenadier reservation with the idea of either buying it myself or replacing her 4Runner. If we don’t do something like that, she wants to supercharge her 4.0 (dealer installed Magnuson). That SC takes the 4Runner to roughly 350 hp, and 375 lb-ft. That is perfect for all the high passes and steep high elevation dirt roads. Thanks again for your kind offer to chat!

 

[DaveB]

That Power Wagon is a beast and sells in Australia in extremely small numbers only as it s way too big, costs USD$125,000 and as fuel is so expensive here it costs a fortune to run. I can see the appeal to it though. Build quality doesn't get good reviews though. 

 

[Michael Gain]

That Power Wagon is a beast and sells in Australia in extremely small numbers only as it s way too big, costs USD$125,000 and as fuel is so expensive here it costs a fortune to run. I can see the appeal to it though. Build quality doesn't get good reviews though. 

I imagine it wouldn't do very well there. One of my only hang ups is that the power wagon is not sold with a diesel powerplant. It still hurts to fill it up, but I forget about that once I sit behind the wheel and start it up. I have not experienced any build quality issues. I know that there are some software gremlins in the newer uconnect system, but probably less headache than the nuances of my old LR4. If I could keep that beast running, the PW is going to be a piece of cake.

 

[Michael Gain]

Thanks Michael! That sounds like the perfect combo of vehicles. My wife drives a 4Runner, but I know she’d prefer the all-wheel drive of the Grenadier, 8 speeds instead of 5, and the turbo 3.0 will perform better than the NA 4.0 up here at high elevation. I’m certainly keeping my Grenadier reservation with the idea of either buying it myself or replacing her 4Runner. If we don’t do something like that, she wants to supercharge her 4.0 (dealer installed Magnuson). That SC takes the 4Runner to roughly 350 hp, and 375 lb-ft. That is perfect for all the high passes and steep high elevation dirt roads. Thanks again for your kind offer to chat!

Like you, my wife had a 4runner ORP. She liked it, but the grenadier is the first vehicle that she directed me to research and is willing to wait for it to arrive. She loves it. We traded the 4runner in on the power wagon, and she inherited my ram rebel. She already told me that the rebel is going--she wants her grenadier lol

 

[DaveB]

[QUOTE username=Michael Gain userid=8442400 postid=1332185929]

I imagine it wouldn't do very well there. One of my only hang ups is that the power wagon is not sold with a diesel powerplant. It still hurts to fill it up, but I forget about that once I sit behind the wheel and start it up. I have not experienced any build quality issues. I know that there are some software gremlins in the newer uconnect system, but probably less headache than the nuances of my old LR4. If I could keep that beast running, the PW is going to be a piece of cake.[/QUOTE]

Our roads are pretty rough which tends to shake out any build issues.
They also have to be converted to right hand drive.
Jeep has really struggled with the same thing and finally decided to leave Australia completely.

 

[Red pepper]

Jeep has really struggled with the same thing and finally decided to leave Australia completely.[/QUOTE]

I think you talking about Fiat Chrysler.. (Jeep is part of this company, but they aren't leaving Australia..) 

 

[DaveB]

[QUOTE username=Red pepper userid=8373838 postid=1332186238]
Jeep has really struggled with the same thing and finally decided to leave Australia completely.

I think you talking about Fiat Chrysler.. (Jeep is part of this company, but they aren't leaving Australia..) [/QUOTE]

After years of uncertainty for the Stellantis-owned manufacturer, Fiat Chrysler Automobiles Australia has confirmed it will cease to bring any further Chrysler-branded vehicles to the local market – with its remaining stock of 30 cars to be shifted before it exits the country.19 Nov 2021
Some posts say this includes JEEP as the Chrysler company has decided to stop manufacturing right hand drive vehicles

 

[ADVAW8S]

On a different topic than lockers, Stellantis has finally released some info on their new 3.0 liter inline six-cylinder turbo-charged engine. I find this relevant because the B58 in the Grenadier (the only options coming to North America) has the same basic specs: I-6, 3.0 liter, turbo-charged.

From The Fast Lane Truck:
"The 3.0-liter Hurricane inline-six will arrive in Stellantis vehicles later this year, in two states of tune. The ‘SO’ (Standard Output) engine, per the company’s official statement, will put out “more than 400 horsepower” and 450 lb-ft of torque, per SAE standard J2723. The company notes it optimized the unit more for efficiency, with two smaller turbochargers, lower maximum boost pressure (22 psi) and a higher 10.4:1 compression ratio. The Hurricane SO engine can run on 87 octane fuel, though the automaker recommends premium for the best figures possible. The ‘HO’ — or High Output — engine will make “more than 500 horsepower”, and above 475 lb-ft of torque."

In comparison, the B58 - as spec'd for the Grenadier - generates 281 horsepower, and 332 lb-ft of torque. I'm certainly not interested in the HO version of the Hurricane - that is designed for vehicles like the Charger or Challenger, and the "sport" version of the Grand Cherokee. But the SO version of the Hurricane, making 400-plus HP, and 450 lb-ft of torque really puts the B58 to shame. If de-tuning means greater longevity, I'd take a hypothetical Hurricane making 350 HP and 400 lb-ft over the B58. Yes - I know - the Hurricane is brand new, and we know absolutely nothing about its reliability. But on paper, it trounces the B58, and I'm a bit baffled at the power discrepancy between the two. I remain pretty disappointed in the power specs for the Grenadier, given its weight (and price).

I know it is a totally different vehicle, but I'm taking a Power Wagon for a test drive tomorrow.
- 410 horsepower, and 429 lb-ft torque, from a naturally aspirated, reliable, V8: "In general, the 6.4 Hemi is a big reliable, American pushrod V8 engine with a factory warranty for five years or 100,000 miles" (Source: Motorreviewer). Of course, fuel economy is crap.
- electronic locking differentials front and rear
- manual transfer case
- ZF 8-speed automatic transmission
- heated seats AND heated steering wheel (this is a big plus for some of us)
- its big; sometimes this will be a detriment, and other times it will be great (like winter road trips that combine ice-climbing, tele skiing, skate skiing, and winter camping)
- payload is not great (around 1,600 pounds), but you can swap out the rear coil springs and increase practical payload to 2,000 pounds (not legal payload, so one still needs to stay within the limit set by the sticker in the door jam, but the truck will carry 1,500 pounds better and more safely with the stiffer springs)
- sticker price: $58,000 - which is about $12,000 less than the Grenadier - leaving plenty of cash for 35-inch tires and rear springs, and maybe brakes (the brakes on the Power Wagon, as I recall from a previous drive years ago, were not impressive)

I still love the idea of the Grenadier. It is a concept that I - and probably most of you - have dreamed about for years. If the longer wheelbase station wagon were coming sooner, and with better power, I'd wait for sure. As currently spec'd (size, power, price) I'm not convinced that the Grenadier is for me. Tough call...

The B58 can be tuned to close to 1000hp if you want to go all out.  If you want to take the B58 to 400hp it will set you back 1500.00.  You change the air intake, tune the ECU and put a catless downpipe.  You can even upgrade the turbo and get close to 500hp. 

 

[emax]

Aside acceleration and top speed: Is there really something which you can't do with 250 HP but with 500?

 

[Tazzieman]

Unless you need to accelerate uphill whilst towing , the B58 torque is more than enough. The Grenadier is speed limited.If you want to go fast , buy a Porsche. You'll use heaps less fuel.

 

[Spjnr]

There's a reason the 1GR FE petrol and the 1HZ ,1HD FTE diesel motors go on forever, and making 500hp isn't one of them. 

INEOS is reading straight from Toyotas play book here, take a well designed reliable engine, give it enough power and torque to do what it needs to, and leave it at that. 

Yes the B58 and B57 make big power on other applications, but that's really not what this vehicle is about. For remote travel, keeping engine temps down, and rpm down makes for an easier time.

As for Stellantis new i6, I'm sure it will make buckets of power, but would I take it around Africa? Probably not

 

[dominicperry]

The 2015 Defender 110 had a 2.2 litre engine with 120hp. 

In the UK and EU, big petrol V8's are no longer affordable to run or acceptable from a CO2 emissions perpective. And the Grenadier is already possibly too big for most UK parking spaces and garages. Of course, your needs may be different, but I think as the 'spiritual successor' to the Defender, the Grenadier has a reasonable balance of power, torque and physical size. 

 

[d1rty]

Since i don't have anything nice to say about Stellantis (what happens when you cross Dodge with Fiat), I won't say anything at all.

I'm low on coffee and in grumpy old man mode, so I'll say that I hate the marketing speak of "tuned for torque."  Please stop saying that - not directed at anyone on this forum, but rather the manufacturer's marketing wings and the "journalists" that parrot manufacturer talking points.  The engine has not been "tuned for torque" it's been de-tuned to run on regular unleaded, and hopefully crappy gas that you're likely to get if you actually drive the Grenadier out to the middle of nowhere like Sir Jim says we all will.

Rant over.  Drinking coffee.  Sorry.

 

[ADVAW8S]

I personally do not want more HP, just replying to person upset the B58 isn't pushing 500hp.   

 

[Spjnr]

Since i don't have anything nice to say about Stellantis (what happens when you cross Dodge with Fiat), I won't say anything at all.

I'm low on coffee and in grumpy old man mode, so I'll say that I hate the marketing speak of "tuned for torque."  Please stop saying that - not directed at anyone on this forum, but rather the manufacturer's marketing wings and the "journalists" that parrot manufacturer talking points.  The engine has not been "tuned for torque" it's been de-tuned to run on regular unleaded, and hopefully crappy gas that you're likely to get if you actually drive the Grenadier out to the middle of nowhere like Sir Jim says we all will.

Rant over.  Drinking coffee.  Sorry.

To a certain extent, you can tune an engine for more low end torque. Varying turbo size and number etc would change at what RPM power comes in, Maybe that's what they're referring to?

But yes a lot of marketing BS out there these days, although INEOS are far from the worst offenders! The amount of cheap plastic 4cylinder diesel pickup trucks that are described as "tough as nails" staggers me

 

[ABBB]

A lot of talk about tuning understandably, and perhaps some hypothetical as we all play around with the idea of this engine, but in reality, when the truck arrives, does anyone expect the warranty to be honored for the powertrain (or really for the whole vehicle) if it is tuned to function differently than manufacturer standard? I know for some that can afford it financially and have the know-how to perform all maintenance and repairs, a tune that negates warranty is a logical next step after purchase, but the rest of us? Is there any expectation that IG would allow for reprogramming of their systems? I highly doubt this but I’m not expert…