On the Grenadier Fence in Brisbane

[Bobby Mac]

Time will tell on the alternatives.

You are right in so many ways. 1947 ergonomics fixed. That was the appeal. I think that's mostly what they've delivered.

But am I prepared to run over trees and wear the panel damage that inevitably comes with using cars hard off road? How will I cover the capability gaps to my defender (range, payload, luggage space)? Am I prepared to tip in 90k for that comfort when I only really use the car on holidays (it's done 1500k in 2023 so far). Yes - the grenadier would be more comfortable but that's really all I've got. Is my defender really that bad that I could justify another 90k (or probably more the way they are hiking). My biggest problem is what I have now does what I need and has done for the last 18 years.

I don't think I'd need to spend 150k on a Toyota to get what I need (although if the company was paying with instant asset write off I'm sure there would be people to take your money). I think there are a number of options I could go for lots less money. For me it's about the places I can go more than about having a cool car (I really don't care anymore).

Anyway car pictured I think will be doing two more desert crossings later in the year (I think that will make just 8 of the simpson, excluding the other deserts). Hopefully I'll see a Grenadier or two out there.

Bit of an update. I have followed the Grenadier for many years now. I was very sure I'd end up replacing our Defender with one.

I didn't jump in because I've had genuinely traumatic experiences with new design production cars. Like really really bad. I wanted to let the bugs and niggles be sorted before I bought. I wanted to try one in my garage (yes it's really really tight both at the front and the back) and a quick look with a real one would have solved that. I wanted a car next year as I have a desert crossing this year and didn't think I'd have time to set a new car up before it. I wanted to let someone develop a bigger tank for them. Above all .. my dear old defender is still relatively low mileage, and does what it's always done as well as it's always done it. I don't have the space or finance to have two sitting around so once it's gone - it's gone and I can never get it back. So I wanted to be really sure.

Anyway, this was a fine plan and it was one I was going with. We did a test drive day and were impressed at it's offroad and up to 20kph driving. But unfortunately we've had three monstrous price rises by the time the first car was delivered. September 21 the price was 85 +onroads. I'm definitely in. Then there was another $12500 price rise. And I'm still in maybe. And now there is another one again and I still haven't seen a production car. So now my trialmaster I wanted is $140k. If I pair out everything I'd like and just get what I think I absolutely need I could keep it to maybe low 130's.

And I'm like - you know what? I just don't think it's worth it. I just don't drive my car enough to justify it I don't think. And I don't think I can live with the stress of worrying about damaging a 140k car on sticks and bushes, and about buckets of bait falling over in the back. I congratulate all the people who have taken the punt and ordered one and are now getting theirs. You've got a good value car and I hope it goes well. Personally I'll watch with interest and wish everyone the best.

Maybe in years to come they will hold or drop the prices, or I'll actually get some wage increases and they will seem better value. But for the moment I just can't see it happening. With the 90k trade in on my defender maybe I'll get a very nice van, or another car and a van with the change. Maybe I'll just keep driving the old girl for a while. It's got more space, more range, and has enough payload that I can actually put some stuff in it. And it's proven and reliable.

I really do think that once the rush of early adopters have their cars I think Ineos are going to struggle to sell them in volume here. Maybe that's the catch.. Maybe they don't have much volume to sell. But that brings into question whether there will be adequate and ongoing support for them. I actually thought at launch prices they would sell literally tens of thousands. Supply and demand and all. Who knows.

Exact same sentiments for me DesertGecko. Due to pick up my Trialmaster within the next couple of weeks, but as time has dragged on and I’ve seen some of the shortcomings of the Grenny compared to my 27yr old Defender, I’m becoming increasingly unsure if I have done the right thing. If I had not got in at the original price, it would not be happening. It is going to be really hard to part with the 130 but I don’t have the room, resources or use for two 4WD s.

 

[James]

I also like the sentiments above. But I think in a way there’s an inclination for people ‘like us’ to feel we need to justify the appeal of the grenadier we feel based on needing all, or most of it’s capacity.
like most above, Ill do a small amount of quite rough stuff, a desert crossing or two, much camping and the like.
But the reason I love the Grenadier is the same reason I love my fiat 500.
It has both clarity and integrity of purpose.
The clarity brings joy to the use of the tool, even when using it outside the purpose for which it was designed. In fact, working with the tool to overcome it’s shortcomings often ends up being some of the most satisfying bits.
The integrity brings satisfaction, and the feeling of participation in supporting something that cuts across so much modern consumerism, where appealing to psychology yields more profit than simply providing quality.

ineos as a company appears to be aiming to have that integrity not just in their product design, but also in their attitude to themselves, and their longer term relationship with us (communication learnings notwithstanding) and the longer term use and performance of the vehicl.

The Grenadier is beautifully conceived and beautifully designed. None of us need any more justification than that.

 

[DesertGecko]

All power to you mate. You make the call that works for you. At today’s prices I’d be out as well. And I’d guess many many on here would also be out.
I hope you end up with whatever works best for your needs. Your current defender, or something else down the track.

It's a bit sad but I'll live. Never say never.

Rode past the Ineos distributor at Stafford at lunch. Finally looks like it should have looked late last year. Lots of happy owners soon.

 

[DCPU]

I can only see them being a niche player.

You make that sound like a bad thing. It was the Ineos business plan right from the start.

Whether that will be enough to support their dealer and support network is to be seen.

There's been enough buy in from, presumably, business savvy people who must have seen more details around the finances and business plan:

Door ‘closed’ to new dealers at Ineos Automotive as firm begins roll-out of Grenadier

Sales and marketing boss Gary Pearson speaks exclusively to Car Dealer about brand’s plans https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/door-closed-to-new-dealers-at-ineos-automotive-as-firm-begins-roll-out-of-grenadier/281966 Some interesting snippets of info in there: "Residual values for models...

www.theineosforum.com

 

[Solmanic]

I still maintain the Grenadier will have to literally stab me in the arse every time I get in for me to doubt my purchase. And let's be honest, my old Defender pretty much did exactly that (driver's door latch anyone?) and I still loved it.

If you want a car to fulfil every technical requirement with utmost reliability and minimum drama, get a Toyota something-or-other.
But I want a car to make me smile and feel good even if every warning light is on, and I think the Grenadier will do that for me.

 

[Tazzieman]

As a toy , it's an expensive one. just like a high end camper trailer/caravan.
If however, you have the time and ability to use it often (including driving to work) , the positives stack up.
As opposed to buying a used car or keeping an old one going for the next decade or more.
I totally understand why some people want or need to pour their finances in other directions.
10 years ago with school fees/mortage I was in the same boat.
Now I'll just have the mortgage offset to keep me in the workplace.

 

[Bobby Mac]

Does anyone know if you have to have white writing on tyre sidewalls showing, or will they deliver otherwise? Just a personal preference, but I’d prefer black sidewalls, and don’t want to waste coin to have them changed around post delivery.

 

[AnD3rew]

Does anyone know if you have to have white writing on tyre sidewalls showing, or will they deliver otherwise? Just a personal preference, but I’d prefer black sidewalls, and don’t want to waste coin to have them changed around post delivery.

The KO2s come from factory with it out. Will depend entirely on your agent if they are willing to do ar no cost or if they charge or of they will do it at all.

 

[Bobby Mac]

The KO2s come from factory with it out. Will depend entirely on your agent if they are willing to do ar no cost or if they charge or of they will do it at all.

No they won’t reverse them at all - Ineos says they must be white writing out!

 

[TheDocAUS]

No they won’t reverse them at all - Ineos says they must be white writing out!

The best thing to keep the white lettering clean is SOLVOL soap, which is no longer made. Lucky I have few spare bars!

 

[Gormanchov]

It's a bit sad but I'll live. Never say never.

Rode past the Ineos distributor at Stafford at lunch. Finally looks like it should have looked late last year. Lots of happy owners soon.

That queens red one is mine, went and had a look at it last Friday and transferred payment today.

 

[Solmanic]

It's a bit sad but I'll live. Never say never.

I’ll still give you an on road drive of mine if you want.

 

[Bobby Mac]

That queens red one is mine, went and had a look at it last Friday and transferred payment today.

Stone the flamin’ crows. I hope you’re not a hurry for a receipt. I went to bank last Mon morning and made the transfer - bank assured me it would be in the Ineos account that afternoon. I rang the Wed arvo late - “still being processed” - I got onto Brisbane Dealer who requested bank receipt which he forwarded to them - as of this afternoon no receipt received - my account still shows “In Production” and “Payment Pending”. They have some serious admin shortcomings.

 

[AnD3rew]

No they won’t reverse them at all - Ineos says they must be white writing out!

As I said, depends entirely on your agent.

 

[CountyV8]

Does anyone know if you have to have white writing on tyre sidewalls showing, or will they deliver otherwise? Just a personal preference, but I’d prefer black sidewalls, and don’t want to waste coin to have them changed around post delivery.

I got my dealer to change them round FOC

 

[Logsplitter]

I got my dealer to change them round FOC

Me also. My dealer swapped them around free of charge

 

[Gormanchov]

Stone the flamin’ crows. I hope you’re not a hurry for a receipt. I went to bank last Mon morning and made the transfer - bank assured me it would be in the Ineos account that afternoon. I rang the Wed arvo late - “still being processed” - I got onto Brisbane Dealer who requested bank receipt which he forwarded to them - as of this afternoon no receipt received - my account still shows “In Production” and “Payment Pending”. They have some serious admin shortcomings.

Haha I got told the same thing today, "should be processed no later than tomorrow".

 

[DesertGecko]

So the vet I take the dog to is near the Grenadier showroom in BNE. So i popped in.. why though?

Anyway good to see some production cars. They looked great. A bit better finished where you could see although not much. Big difference under the car though. Clearly all the little details attended to.

Spoke to the salesman. "did you order your car?". I'm like "No dude.. I was waiting for a test drive" (Which they promised in dec 22, march, and then June and still hasn't happened). He was clearly a bit concerned about the new prices.

I'm like "oh well. no rush now then!". He did say the wait times were reducing. Order now for a November build. I really do think that they are going to struggle to get new orders at those prices. Shoulder shrug. Will be interesting to watch from the side lines.

At least now there is no rush I can watch and see how things actually pan out in the real world. Let them sort the bugs and the aftermarket step up. He said the petrol doesn't actually use that much more than the diesel. Without the adblue tank and gubbins it might be possible to fit a bigger tank to the petrol so might be actually a good option. I'm open to the idea of going petrol if they can get a big enough tank in.

 

[bigleonski]

So the vet I take the dog to is near the Grenadier showroom in BNE. So i popped in.. why though?

Anyway good to see some production cars. They looked great. A bit better finished where you could see although not much. Big difference under the car though. Clearly all the little details attended to.

Spoke to the salesman. "did you order your car?". I'm like "No dude.. I was waiting for a test drive" (Which they promised in dec 22, march, and then June and still hasn't happened). He was clearly a bit concerned about the new prices.

I'm like "oh well. no rush now then!". He did say the wait times were reducing. Order now for a November build. I really do think that they are going to struggle to get new orders at those prices. Shoulder shrug. Will be interesting to watch from the side lines.

At least now there is no rush I can watch and see how things actually pan out in the real world. Let them sort the bugs and the aftermarket step up. He said the petrol doesn't actually use that much more than the diesel. Without the adblue tank and gubbins it might be possible to fit a bigger tank to the petrol so might be actually a good option. I'm open to the idea of going petrol if they can get a big enough tank in.

Did they say if their demo was ready for test drives yet mate?

 

[MarkH]

Most owners are reporting they absolutely love the vehicle so I think the orders will pick up again as the 'watchers' keep reading just how good the vehicle is. I've got a good feeling about it, has a good chance to be the off-road 'king'. All hinges of course on reliability of the main components. Unlikely that engines and trans will play up but it could be game over if we start seeing issues. Those two things are what most seem to focus on when considering a brand.
First thing I thought of when the price went up again was how pissed off the dealers would be after heavily investing and the showrooms a ghost town for the last 6mths.

I was surprised to read the South African spec diesels don't have AdBlue. Lucky buggers have a spot for a long range tank.