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Nolden Headlights

AWo

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Short answer from my bed, one eye closed already.

First the inner lights were Halogen from Valeo. Size? I assume 70 mm or 87 mm. That probably changed to LED from a British manufacturer unknown to me.

The 7" shown are Nolden 1st gen. If there is only a H4 plug, it is the very first issue. If there is an additional cable it also has a position light.

The 2nd gen makes a difference.

Cheers
AWo
 
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Having had the first set of "Nolden" bi-LED's (which, after some sleuthing, I actually found/purchased from Nolden's large lighting manufacturer in the FarEast--SHOCK/HORROR for you diehard Euro fans :LOL:) in the USA on my gray G, they were good and SO much better than the anemic OEM halogens, but the beam pattern could have been better. It's been ~10yrs now but from my recollection, there were some gaps in the beam pattern, meaning it wasn't uniform.
DSCN0713_modcrop-640x559.jpg


That being said, when augmented with Rigid 50" E1 combo LED bar, I could easily see at night;
IMG_1966_mod-640x480.jpg


Did I experience issues with frosting during snow/ice; yes, for sure (I have the same issue on my Morimoto XB's on my big truck). I need to do more research but some have talked about trying a plexiglass polish that might help the frost not stick to the lenses as well. Haven't tried that yet.

Yes, the manufacturer has SAE or ECE lighting, and specific LHD or RHD beam patterns, as well as "city/marker lights" or not. Mine were SAE, LHD, city light equipped. However, while my G was an '03 with simpler electronics, we tried installing a slightly different pair of these on a client's '06 which had an LED strip vs my city light bulb. His '06 G freaked out due to the LED strip and displayed error messages in the cluster. We couldn't easily solve this so the client was going to look for an alternative.

USA Jeeps use JW Speaker and Trucklite. Looks like TRS has a bunch of new options now for 7" round (I assume that's the diameter of the IG's?) from Morimoto, VisionX, KC, Rigid, Oracle; https://www.theretrofitsource.com/assemblies/headlight-assemblies-universal
I had a look at Nolden's mfr's website and I do not see any lamps that look like gen3 IG, so IG probably went to another larger supplier (Hella, Osram, Philips, etc) and had lamps made.
Yup - I ran JW Speakers on my JKU. They were fantastic. Approximately 1027 times better than the stock halogen lights 😁

Got them on sale, otherwise, they are pricey. I had friends with Trucklites and they were cheaper than JW Speaker when comparing retail price of each, and seemed just as good. There were some minor differences, but nothing to get worked-up over. Here is a review of a bunch of 7-inch headlights. Might be dated, I just had it bookmarked from a while back...

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNZT6QqHHOo
 
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Short answer from my jed, one eye closed already.

First the inner lights were Halogen from Valeo. Size? I assume 70 mm or 87 mm. That probably changed to LED from a British manufacturer unknown to me.

The 7" shown are Nolden 1st gen. If there is only a H4 plug, it is the very first issue. If there is an additional cable it also has a position light.

The 2nd gen makes a difference.

Cheers
AWo

Hopefully IG's inner lights are now LED, especially in this day/age. Thx for their sizing. And they're stand alone auxiliary lights, correct?
<My G's "Nolden's" were plug and play with the Mercedes wiring, with pos light.>
 

AWo

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We recently saw a batch of Lightpartz and Lynx in Germany where the polcarbonat glass started to yellow and to create very small cracks all over the glass within two years. That is far too soon.

2023-03-03_09h02_23.jpg
2023-03-03_09h03_05.jpg


Polycarbonate is not the best choice for glass in lights, as it tends to yellow and thereby reducing the light performance. Acryl is the better choice (and used for non-front-lights). But front lights always use polycarbonate, as this is the only material which still can be used for lights and resists impacts and that is a important requirement for front lights. If the manufacturer chooses poor quality polycarbonate this can happen. If the use good quality the glass can last more than ten, fifteen years without noticable degradations.

Cheers
AWo
 

emax

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The only thing I know, is, that cracks might appear if you clean the polycarbonate with some solvent if it contains any kind of alcohol or ammonia. Cockpit spray, for example, or glass cleaner ...
 

Krabby

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Hopefully, it won't be too difficult a task to replace one (or upgrade). The housings on the Fit were beyond saveable so I decided to replace them - had to take half the car apart to do so (grill, bumper cover, wheel well liners ...)!
 

bemax

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Speaking of lighting, did anyone see this article, where MotorTrend complained about the anemic headlights on the IG (lights look like non-Nolden's)?

Yes, but in between all of this positive points it didn’t seem to important to me. Especially as they mentioned that they didn’t use the extra lights. I am not sure whether those extra lights have been a light bar on the roof or just the two extra lights in the middle of the grill.
 

AWo

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Nolden say their lights should be good for 10 years.

As a rough guide, equivalent Nolden aftermarket lights seem to be @£750 to replace. So if you were to write them off over that period (yes I know some will last longer but some will inevitably fail earlier), that's a simple £75 per annum for the set, or £37.50 per lamp.

That buys you an awful lot of halogen bulbs...

The only other saving of LEDs I can see is lower power consumption equaling less call on the alternator so maybe some quantifiable fuel savings. Anyone ever worked that calculation out?

Added to that, if a lamp fails at an inconvenient point then your whole vehicle is unroadworthy. Everyone (OK not everyone) carries spare halogen bulbs but who's planning on carrying a spare set (they are handed) of headlights for those long intercontinental trips?

Is the smart solution to "upgrade" or "downgrade" to halogen units?
May I jump in here?

Why were Ineos "strangely" silent? Why not just "haven't mentioned it"?
I owned a specialised lighting company when swappable LED's first came in and they were fantastic compared to incandescent lamps. The problem with all high powered LED's is heat. You will notice on LED headlamps and driving lights that they have large heatsinks. Metal fins.
You can't do that easily on a swappable lamp. Halogen lamps don't like vibration, so to counter that they use a thicker filament and more supports. This leads to longer life but lower light output.
LED headlight lifespan is measured in operating hours and is typically 30-50,000 hours.
Halogen headlamps are typically 450-1,000 hours.
HID headlamps last approximately 2,000
My HID headlamps are now 8 years old.
I wouldn't worry about changing your LED headlamps.
Very well explained-.. LED light technology is robust and rigid and Nolden is a very big player when it come to special forces and military light. They fullfil highest requirements like CISPR-25 level 5 and they have 1st Generation 7" on the roads globally for more than 10 to 15 years. Still working.

The argument of a broken light at inconvinient places...ok...in general that applies...but...a single good LED gives you enough if not even more light than a single halogen and if you're deep in the African jungle or desert most people have a vast of other light sources mounted to compensate that easily. And as long as you do not leave the planet. you get a spare light. If really in doubt. install an old halogen again if this is easier to get in Turbilutschistan...ehmmm....wait...ok, that's a point...the Grenadier has not a standard light size like 7". Ok , forget my last argument. And to be honest, I would be afraid of an engine or gearbox brakedown, two flat tires and no spare, a fire in the electrics in the bush (what happend to a German couple with a VW T3 who were saved by an Toyota Land Cruiser pulling them 650 km to the next town), or the absolutely nigthmare, THE desaster: no beer! But not if one light goes out.

In general, if a LED car light fails (when speaking about a well designed product, no cheap stuff), it almost always does this right in the beginning or never. The light is more like daylight, which lowers fatigue and a well designed lens gives you far more homogeneous light in front of you car. Another advantage is, that the light creates more contrast so you can see details a lot better. Same spot, first = halogen, second = LED, check the grass and the plants:

1024px_Halogen-H4-Abblend_Pos_01.jpg
1024px_Nolden-Bi-LED-Abblend_Pos_01.jpg


Compare ISO-Lux diagrams of halogen and LED lights! LED light illuminates brighter and further, in average between 30 and 60 meter further. Use a ISO-Lux diagram because that is an agreed measurement procedure, eliminating every subjectivity. Because the LED low beam is so much better than with halogen, people are often disappointed from the high beam. But there is a reason for this. First, low beam has a invisible limitation vendors and car manufacturers don't love to cross, 2000 Lumen. If you cross that line you have to install an automatic headlight adjustment and a light washer. So most of the time they try to stay under that limit (difficult with Xenon). However, that is not bad, you still get enough performance, especially if good lenses are used. The goal is not to have as much Lumen as possible, but to get as much Lumen as possible on the street (--> ISO-Lux Diagram). As the LED low beam illuminates brighter and further, your also limited (by regulations) LED high beam doesn't add as much light as you're used with your halogen high beam (which adds a lot of light to the low beam).

A good LED headlight is sealed, so you have no corrosion and degradation problems with the reflector. In fact Nolden headlights are IP6K9K proof, so you can use a pressure washer from the front end the rear. The glas doesn't brake and what you see here in the video when we crossed a river at night in Albania, doesn't happen. You can dive them 1 m for 30 minutes (and probably longer, but that is guaranteed):

View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/BMS9KyrenIs


That was the light of the second car after crossing the river:

1024px_IMG_1413.jpg



Nolden themself run tests and their lights reach 30,000 hours minimum what equals roughly 11 years of 8 hours night drive or 8 years 24x7 night drive. And that doesn't mean they fail at 30,000.001 hours. Halogen lights suffer especially from every switch-on, touching, vibration and increased voltage. LED work usually from 6 to 32 volts without any difference in performance. Repairing a LED light is not possible. If you ever saw what is necessary to get a homologation for a light and to guarantee that the requirements are met over thousands produced units, you'll understand. I'm talking about reference points, aligment of the components in the light housing, sealing, etc.

Regarding LED-bulbs, like the Osram Nightbreaker LED, yes, they give you far better light than halogen and they can easily be swapped. But, we gave the Osram LED-lights to an acknowledged light labor. The result was, that they do not reach all minimum standards which the UN-ECE requires. That is the reason why they have a national homologation in Germany and they are not legal in France, for example. The have a lot of scattered light above the light border and their asymmetrical part is far too much right, illuminating more of the acre than the curbside. And they use active cooling, what is not desireable and they do not seal your halogen light. So they will also drown in water.....I would always prefer a discrete complete LED-light.

Maybe I forgot things..don't know, but I have to leave for now...

landyfriends-2021-web-24.jpg


Cheers and always one illuminated candle
AWo
 
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DCPU

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The argument of a broken light at inconvinient places
No a broken lamp means the vehicle cannot be driven on a UK road legally. It stops your journey dead. That was the point being made.
Compare ISO-Lux diagrams of halogen and LED lights! LED light illuminates brighter and further, in average between 30 and 60 meter further.
Yet I've managed to drive at night with existing light technology more than perfectly well.
A good headlight is sealed, so you have no corrosion and degradation problem with the reflector. In fact Noldens headlights are IP6K9K proof, so you can use a pressure washer from the front end the rear. The glas doesn't brake and what you see here in the video when we crossed a river at night in Albania, doesn't happen. You can dive them 1 m for 30...
All at a relatively huge cost compared to old tech...
Screenshot_20230303_192252.jpg

Nolden themself run tests and their lights reach 30,000 hours minimum what equals roughly 11 years of 8 hours night drive or 8 years 24x7 night drive.
I'd be happier in that assertion if they offered more than a 3 year warranty, which driving every day for say 2 hours equals 2,190 hours, or 7% of those 30,000 minimum (really?) hours.

You seem to be making the opposite case for LED lamps on the Grenadier than you were for the Grenadier as a whole in your article.
 

AWo

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I see you have signed the contract...so if yo do not cancel your order because of LED lights you'll will have to use them. Let's talk in a few years again or find some Defender fellows in the UK using Nolden (like installed in the last Defender model). Ask them about their experience.

Sometimes you just have to trust and make your own experience. We use Noldens for years incl. heavy offroading, washbed roads and UK Greenlaning. Not a single outage.

Maybe it is time to get used to and to trust not so new technology, like flight passengers did once...and believe me...if you feel uncomfortable with LED lights, cancel your order and by a VW Golf 1 or a Rover P6 or a Ford Capri or a Defender Tdi. The Grenadier and all other modern cars are full of electronics where a problem with that harms your life and journey much more than a headlight.

BTW your SAS trusts Nolden and LED...
British Prodrive as well...check their Dakar cars. These are Nolden Avego lights, 3rd Generation.

Cheers
AWo
 
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DaveB

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No a broken lamp means the vehicle cannot be driven on a UK road legally. It stops your journey dead. That was the point being made.

Yet I've managed to drive at night with existing light technology more than perfectly well.

All at a relatively huge cost compared to old tech...
View attachment 7804958

I'd be happier in that assertion if they offered more than a 3 year warranty, which driving every day for say 2 hours equals 2,190 hours, or 7% of those 30,000 minimum (really?) hours.

You seem to be making the opposite case for LED lamps on the Grenadier than you were for the Grenadier as a whole in your article.
 
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Yes, but in between all of this positive points it didn’t seem to important to me. Especially as they mentioned that they didn’t use the extra lights. I am not sure whether those extra lights have been a light bar on the roof or just the two extra lights in the middle of the grill.

It was just one journalism review I understand, but poorer quality LED low beam headlights aren't important to you?
I read the extra lights as being the ones in the center (believe those are auxiliary lights, not high beams?), but using these would probably blind oncoming drivers, so you're in the same boat as MotorTrend; supposedly lackluster main/low beam lights.


@AWo , a great point being made about IG's ~8.x" main headlights. A bit strange they didn't go with commonplace 7", which would be easier to find in Ghemakistan than an 8.x" will be.

Also, is Nolden testing their manufacturer's lamps themselves, or is Nolden's manufacturer testing these overseas(ie east of you)?
 
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bemax

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I see you have signed the contract...so if yo do not cancel your order because of LED lights you'll will have to use them. Let's talk in a few years again or find some Defender fellows in the UK using Nolden (like installed in the last Defender model). Ask them about their experience.

Sometimes you just have to trust and make your own experience. We use Noldens for years incl. heavy offroading, washbed roads and UK Greenlaning. Not a single outage.

Maybe it is time to get used to and to trust not so new technology, like flight passengers did once...and believe me...if you feel uncomfortable with LED lights, cancel your order and by a VW Golf 1 or a Rover P6 or a Ford Capri or a Defender Tdi. The Grenadier and all other modern cars are full of electronics where a problem with that harms your life and journey much more than a headlight.

BTW your SAS trusts Nolden and LED...
British Prodrive as well...check their Dakar cars. These are Nolden Avego lights, 3rd Generation.

Cheers
AWo
I changed my halogen lights in my Defender to Nolden six years ago. It gives me more security at night than nearly every standard part on this car can give me. A friend bought a Trucklight LED for his 90 and when he compared it with the Nolden he bought the Nolden for his 110 as well. For me there is no discussion at all regarding my Nolden LEDs. When they (or presumably one) fail they have given me a huge mileage of safer driving in the night. I am sure that is worth more than the easier exchange of a halogen light.
 

AWo

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You seem making the opposite case for LED lamps on the Grenadier than you were for the Grenadier as a whole in your article.
No, as I'm not against modern technology nor old one. I'm only disappointed when what was promised doesn' get's delivered (from my point of view). And my main critism is about the use factor and the weight, not the light.

Cheers
AWo
 
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