INEOS will NOT protect order holders in the US from dealer markups

[YellowLab]

I will dump my order and walk from a dealer playing that game. I reserved my gren on DAY 1 - there are plenty of other vehicles if Ineos dealers start getting gready….

 

[nuclearbeef]

So, would you consider a $695 document fee a markup?
$999?
$199?

Easy for the dealers to play games.
I'll have a pretty low tolerance for it.

 

[Krabby]

So, would you consider a $695 document fee a markup?
$999?
$199?

Easy for the dealers to play games.
I'll have a pretty low tolerance for it.

Very good point. It would not be difficult to list every dealer’s fees right here for the world to see. I do know some states have maximum doc fees though FEES

 

[stratego]

I will walk myself if the dealer tries that, Toyota has exerted its self on dealers allocations of 4Runners and tacomas that have added market adjustments.

No they haven’t. Toyota doesn’t control allocations in a large part of the U.S. market (they sold distribution to Gulf states and southern states Toyota) and most states have laws explicitly preventing manufacturers from changing allocations based on stuff like this.

I work in strategy for an automaker, it’s a maddening state of affairs.

 

[YellowLab]

There is an industry term we should all learn to address dealer games. Merely look them in the eye and say “f%&$ off,”

 

[Bruce]

There is an industry term we should all learn to address dealer games. Merely look the, in the eye and say “f%&$ off,”

Most people would need to learn to tell their demand for instant gratification to f&©€ off before being able to tell the dealer too!

 

[James]

Why are we still debating direct sales in the US? Ineos has chosen its path. (In fact, they chose their path a long time ago.) Like it or leave it.

There was no choice For INEOS to make. They could not go direct, it was impossible, illegal, unavailable as an option. They really wanted to. Tesla used technology and USA manufacturing exceptions. Dealer structure is too embedded in law…

it obviously causes real pain, and hardly encourages competition from what you guys complain about. Hopefully publicly shaming gouging, and shifting delivery to ethical agents will work. Good luck!

 

[DaveB]

There was no choice For INEOS to make. They could not go direct, it was impossible, illegal, unavailable as an option. They really wanted to. Tesla used technology and USA manufacturing exceptions. Dealer structure is too embedded in law…

it obviously causes real pain, and hardly encourages competition from what you guys complain about. Hopefully publicly shaming gouging, and shifting delivery to ethical agents will work. Good luck!

I think it is funny that in the land of the free car dealers make the rules.
Sounds like it is no more free than the rest of us.
Although we all still have the freedom to walk away.

 

[emax]

The US guys should found a purchasing cooperative and buy ALL Grenadiers at the same agent with a bulletproof contract for final sales prices.

The other dealers will then have a problem. For the saved money you can easily pay an extra transport to your address.

In Germany there was once a great idea to force petrol stations to lower pertrol prices. The idea was, not to refuel at e.g. "Aral" stations for a month or two all over Germany. It didn't work because there are so many idiots which are stupid or ignorant and just don't care.

But within a comparably small group of customers like there is for the Grenadier, this could eventually work. It's called the power of the market.

That would require someone to act as spokesperson and negotiator, preferably a lawyer. The lawyer could be a Grenadier buyer himself or even a paid lawyer.

 

[vjmvjm]

The US guys should found a purchasing cooperative and buy ALL Grenadiers at the same agent with a bulletproof contract for final sales prices.

The other dealers will then have a problem. For the saved money you can easily pay an extra transport to your address.

In Germany there was once a great idea to force petrol stations to lower pertrol prices. The idea was, not to refuel at e.g. "Aral" stations for a month or two all over Germany. It didn't work because there are so many idiots which are stupid or ignorant and just don't care.

But within a comparably small group of customers like there is for the Grenadier, this could eventually work. It's called the power of the market.

That would require someone to act as spokesperson and negotiator, preferably a lawyer. The lawyer could be a Grenadier buyer himself or even a paid lawyer.

Yeah, right, everyone is going to agree to get together and participate. And buy your vehicles at a dealership potentially thousands of miles from your home.

 

[RobP]

Now that we have a possible list of some dealers in the US (from the "ANY WORD YET?" thread), we should invite them to the forum. I know the one in Houston joined the forum and has already said no markups.

 

[ADVAW8S]

I think it is funny that in the land of the free car dealers make the rules.
Sounds like it is no more free than the rest of us.
Although we all still have the freedom to walk away.

The United States is one big enigma.

 

[Krabby]

Now that we have a possible list of some dealers in the US (from the "ANY WORD YET?" thread), we should invite them to the forum. I know the one in Houston joined the forum and has already said no markups.

I’m confident many are already here and will become vocal when they’re allowed to. Until the official dealer announcement, it is probably wise for them to keep on the DL.

 

[emax]

Yeah, right, everyone is going to agree to get together and participate. And buy your vehicles at a dealership potentially thousands of miles from your home.

You don't have to. You have a choice.

 

[YellowLab]

So, would you consider a $695 document fee a markup?
$999?
$199?

Easy for the dealers to play games.
I'll have a pretty low tolerance for it.

The doc fees are about as BS as the 'rust protection' and the 'ceramic paint protectors'

 

[anand]

The doc fees are about as BS as the 'rust protection' and the 'ceramic paint protectors'

I couldn't agree more, but honestly, if everything else in the purchase process has gone well (dealer has or is willing to get the vehicle I want, at an agreeable price), and I get to the finance room who, after attempting to sell me on 40 useless upsells, prints everything out and presents a $499 doc fee, even on a $35,000 purchase, I'm not walking away at that point to start all over elsewhere (and I think that is part of the dealer's play).

 

[YellowLab]

I couldn't agree more, but honestly, if everything else in the purchase process has gone well (dealer has or is willing to get the vehicle I want, at an agreeable price), and I get to the finance room who, after attempting to sell me on 40 useless upsells, prints everything out and presents a $499 doc fee, even on a $35,000 purchase, I'm not walking away at that point to start all over elsewhere (and I think that is part of the dealer's play).

I think we all are willing to move forward with an agreeable price. My list price is now $94K - if the dealer hits me with a $20-30K mark up for example which Ive seen far too often in CA - I would walk away. I believe Ineos knows this and the dealers might save the big $$ mark ups for the non-reservation holders.

 

[Grenadier Journals]

The US guys should found a purchasing cooperative and buy ALL Grenadiers at the same agent with a bulletproof contract for final sales prices.

The other dealers will then have a problem. For the saved money you can easily pay an extra transport to your address.

In Germany there was once a great idea to force petrol stations to lower pertrol prices. The idea was, not to refuel at e.g. "Aral" stations for a month or two all over Germany. It didn't work because there are so many idiots which are stupid or ignorant and just don't care.

But within a comparably small group of customers like there is for the Grenadier, this could eventually work. It's called the power of the market.

That would require someone to act as spokesperson and negotiator, preferably a lawyer. The lawyer could be a Grenadier buyer himself or even a paid lawyer.

Even a small group that are all getting from the same dealer can pull together.

Sadly I feel like a large portion of the orders are from rich people that will prob pay all with cash.. and a $1k-$4k hike is Pennies in the bucket.

But I am all for a collective.. and I’m even open to picking up from a location not the closest to me.. after all I’ll be traveling all over the US / Canada with this thing.

 

[shiv.nandak]

Sadly I feel like a large portion of the orders are from rich people that will prob pay all with cash.. and a $1k-$4k hike is Pennies in the bucket.

Yea... i don't think rich people pay in cash. Always let someone else (bank) fund your depreciating assets.

 

[Grenadier Journals]

Yea... i don't think rich people pay in cash. Always let someone else (bank) fund your depreciating assets.

Well they’ll have 0% interest which is same as cash to me.