INEOS will NOT protect order holders in the US from dealer markups

[K2grenadier]

Hi Sulley - welcome to the board. This topic has come up in a few different threads, but thank you for posting those screenshots. I'm not sure where you're located, but in New Jersey, it is illegal for car companies to sell direct to customers, and unfortunately, this is the case in a good number of states. The dealer lobbyist attack is awfully strong.

That said, we hope that Ineos can "influence" dealers to not charge markups, but it is out of their control. Many of us have talked about a group buy from an honest dealer and our willingness to travel to acquire an IG at list. I've had some bad experiences with local dealerships and their "market adjustment" BS and refuse to give them anything. I'd rather spend $5,000 to fly to Timbuktu to buy this truck for list, than give that $5,000 to the greedy dealer down the road.

Check this attachment out.

EDIT - Some states would allow direct sales under certain guidelines, but since IA wouldn't be able to do this everywhere, I'm guessing they decided to forgo direct sales all together.

Thanks for the info. Interesting attachment on the laws, it’s a shame Ineos could not try to establish a single factory store in the us in a state that would allow it ( like Fl if I’m reading it correctly) to keep other dealers in line price wise. …or maybe they did and we don’t know it yet.

 

[YellowLab]

My thoughts are - if dealers want to mark the price beyond sticker - people should walk and let INEOS know.

 

[vjmvjm]

Thanks for the info. Interesting attachment on the laws, it’s a shame Ineos could not try to establish a single factory store in the us in a state that would allow it ( like Fl if I’m reading it correctly) to keep other dealers in line price wise. …or maybe they did and we don’t know it yet.

Building and operating a low-volume dealership and service center is not inexpensive. Based upon my discussions with Ineos staff at the early DC reveal, the dealer model makes implementation of sales and service a lot simpler for the limited Ineos staff in the US.

 

[pioneerofthenile]

My thoughts are - if dealers want to mark the price beyond sticker - people should walk and let INEOS know.

they should but they won't. if the dealer charges them a couple/few thousand more they'll more than likely pay the up charge for fear of not getting one. old, rich, white fan boys will not walk for this amount. they might put up a fuss if it's 10k more, but I'm sure some will pay it as well.

I don't think it will come to that as not enough people know of the vehicle. and if they do they're already soured because of the msrp price

 

[Deleted User Account.]

they should but they won't. if the dealer charges them a couple/few thousand more they'll more than likely pay the up charge for fear of not getting one. old, rich, white fan boys will not walk for this amount. they might put up a fuss if it's 10k more, but I'm sure some will pay it as well.

I don't think it will come to that as not enough people know of the vehicle. and if they do they're already soured because of the msrp price

I'm older and rich, and I walked.

 

[40man]

they should but they won't. if the dealer charges them a couple/few thousand more they'll more than likely pay the up charge for fear of not getting one. old, rich, white fan boys will not walk for this amount. they might put up a fuss if it's 10k more, but I'm sure some will pay it as well.

I don't think it will come to that as not enough people know of the vehicle. and if they do they're already soured because of the msrp price

I won't walk until I can't get a dealer within a 8 hr distance that will sell for MSRP+reasonable install for accessories (just got the fender plates). Since there is no commitment, and I can get my deposit back, no reason to walk now.

I'm more concerned about unfixed software issues at this point.

 

[anand]

old, rich, white fan boys

Well doesn't that sound awfully closedminded of the purchasing demographic...

 

[pioneerofthenile]

Well doesn't that sound awfully closedminded of the purchasing demographic...

it is what it is.

I'm older and rich, and I walked.

yeah, but you're walking even before the potential markup. if the price bothers you look at some of the 4x4's. the price isn't as far off as you might think.

many ford dealers are also charging 10k adm on a bronco as well. hard to not get hosed one way or another buying a new car these days.

imagine the elation of only paying msrp....that;s where we're at

 

[anand]

it is what it is.

We can bicker about it until we are blue in the face, but based on what I've seen at the North American tour stops, your demographic choice is not accurate.

 

[evomind]

they should but they won't. if the dealer charges them a couple/few thousand more they'll more than likely pay the up charge for fear of not getting one. old, rich, white fan boys will not walk for this amount. they might put up a fuss if it's 10k more, but I'm sure some will pay it as well.

I don't think it will come to that as not enough people know of the vehicle. and if they do they're already soured because of the msrp price

Normally I would agree, or I should say 10 years ago I would agree but it seems EVERYONE is a collector now.
These rich guys, and it seems there a lot of them running around, 80k, 90k, 100k, 110k...
Pocket change.

 

[GoneNative]

How does Tesla do it?

Tesla does not, and has not ever, had a franchised independent dealer partner.

All their stores and locations to buy and service are owned by Tesla with Tesla employees.

Independent dealership franchise operators hate Tesla and the idea of manufacturer owned stores so each states dealer association has sued or tried to influence legislation at a local level to block.

Tesla wins exceptions in courts based on the fact they have never had a franchised dealer exist or by compromise with a limit on sales locations or by simply not having a presence in a state. This has cost hundreds of millions $ in litigation, real estate, and employees over 10+ years.

Or you could just sign some existing BMW franchised dealers to also have Ineos and boom, dealer network with tools and basic training created nearly instantly with nearly no investment on ineos USA side.

The result is some potential ineos profit is shared with dealers since the product is whole sale sold to dealers who then sell at MSRP, which in this price range is about a 10% mark up. Dealer installed accessories also profit dealer and does warranty work.

Source for this info is me, former dealer network experience with a small British car company.

 

[FlyingTexan]

YES. Automobile manufacturers cannot sell cars directly to customers, hence they cannot own a physical dealership. Certainly in NJ and I believe for many other states as well.

Tell that to Tesla and Rivian. You can order online and have delivered which is what we are all doing.

 

[FlyingTexan]

it is what it is.



yeah, but you're walking even before the potential markup. if the price bothers you look at some of the 4x4's. the price isn't as far off as you might think.

many ford dealers are also charging 10k adm on a bronco as well. hard to not get hosed one way or another buying a new car these days.

imagine the elation of only paying msrp....that;s where we're at

That’s just because some people are dumb enough to pay it. There will be a snap back, Ford and Toyota are starting to pressure dealers to chill out. In the end I don’t have any sympathy for dealerships and their pricing. I had a cord raptor ordered once and when it got to the dealer they wanted $20k more. After all my wait and all my planning. So personally I hope the bottom falls out and these dealerships close their doors and the people so comfortable trying to screw me end up on unemployment. What goes around comes around.

 

[Krabby]

Tell that to Tesla and Rivian. You can order online and have delivered which is what we are all doing.

Not sure if you saw this earlier in this thread but here is a SUMMARY of direct sales law by state One of the loopholes that Tesla, Rivian, and I imagine other EV-only manufacturers will try, is having NO dealerships whatsoever in a state. That means they are not directly competing with a franchise dealer on price. Many states have closed loopholes like this- NJ (my State) being one of them.

 

[vjmvjm]

Why are we still debating direct sales in the US? Ineos has chosen its path. (In fact, they chose their path a long time ago.) Like it or leave it.

 

[Bruce]

Why are we still debating direct sales in the US? Ineos has chosen its path. (In fact, they chose their path a long time ago.) Like it or leave it.

Agree. The thread should have been called "Ineos CAN NOT..."

 

[Deleted User Account.]

Tell that to Tesla and Rivian. You can order online and have delivered which is what we are all doing.

Yup. Just picked up the wife's today. None of this dealer nonsense.

 

[Makers52129]

My thoughts are - if dealers want to mark the price beyond sticker - people should walk and let INEOS know.

I absolutely will NOT pay anything over MSRP and will certainly walk away if the US dealers try to mark it up. I feel that I am taking a substantial leap of faith by ordering an unproven first generation vehicle and to ask for additional monies will definitely be a deal breaker for me.

 

[DrahthHunter]

I will walk myself if the dealer tries that, Toyota has exerted its self on dealers allocations of 4Runners and tacomas that have added market adjustments.

 

[anand]

I will walk myself if the dealer tries that, Toyota has exerted its self on dealers allocations of 4Runners and tacomas that have added market adjustments.

that's probably the most commonly extorted vehicle subgroup for markups