INEOS Radio Silence and the lesser spotted contract

[Adam]

I recently drove in to my local town (Scottish Borders) and parked next to clutch of brand new Grenadiers. 'what's going on here then, and where's mine I said to the assembled bunch of chaps surrounding them, 'we're on the global press release, we've driven from down from inverness (or somewhere further north)'.
Oh, says me, any good then? I quipped, and the Ineos chap said ' i think we're very happy with the how things are going', I look around and the Journo's aren't saying anything but nodding their heads and smiled at me with a thumbs up. Why the radio silence? I ask the Ineos chap, 'well', he says, 'I'm not an Ineos employee, just helping on the launch, I think it will all kick off after February 8th, bye the way, I've one ordered and I think it will be early March for me, I run several Disco 4's like yours and they are good but this is fab in my opinion, built more like a G wagon. By this time the first one of the group was heading off up the cobbled street.

 

[AnD3rew]

Bearing in mind the lack of updates I would like to know what happens if I pay the full price for my Grenadier and the company goes bust before I drive it away. Do I own my vehicle or have I lost all my money? Losing my deposit would hurt but I could cope, losing the whole price of the Grenadier would not be at all funny. Money paid to a company is not usually ring fenced. Some reassurance from Ineos Grenadier would be nice.

The exposure is going to be, at worst, a couple of days as the money just needs to be there by handover. But in the worst possible case and I am no expert, but generally if it is a full bankruptcy then everything would shut down and you would have to join the list of creditors that recievers work through, then it would get complicated if they decided to keep it running and sell or turn it around you would have a chance to get your car, if not then probably not. Having said all that, I think there is an extremely small risk that this would happen, INEOS is huge and rich, an although I am sure they have built some kind of structure that separates INEOS from INEOS Automotive legally, they are unlikely to just throw it all in after billions invested and many years investment of time.

 

[tnkatoy]

I think that the lack of a contract is not that big a deal. Its the lack of communication that is the issue for me and I suspect most customers.

Agreed ... there seems to be a general lack of knowledge and information across the organisation as a whole.

At a test drive day I was advised to go through my 'nominated agent' to make any changes to the specification (add winch, delete rocksliders, add side steps), which was done in the week following the drive. Three weeks later the specification on the website hadn't changed, so several follow up emails with the agent later I finally received a response that the changes had been rejected, as the vehicle was already in production and there was nothing they could do (and no, there was no communication or production date on my profile and I haven't signed a contract). My only option was to buy the car as is, buy the components I wanted and fit them post delivery, ie pay for stuff I was going to take off straight away ... huh ???

The problem here is that Ineos has imposed a deadline on changes prior to production, but if we don't know when production is, how can we work to their deadline?

Anyway ... after 50 minutes on the phone with Ineos, the changes had been arranged and a confirmation email received later that day (the price on my profile has changed but not the specification), so a big thank-you for condescending to agree to a customers request, because that's what it feels like, Ineos has done me a favor, and that just shouldn't be the case.

On the up side, we are getting very close to the lifting on the press embargo on the 8th Feb, so I'm not likely to sign a contract until after that date now.

 

[Solmanic]

INEOS is huge and rich, an although I am sure they have built some kind of structure that separates INEOS from INEOS Automotive legally, they are unlikely to just throw it all in after billions invested and many years investment of time.

Yes. I'm sure there is little to no chance of Sir Jim doing a drug deal to make payroll a'la John DeLorean.

 

[Hicarus]

Bearing in mind the lack of updates I would like to know what happens if I pay the full price for my Grenadier and the company goes bust before I drive it away. Do I own my vehicle or have I lost all my money? Losing my deposit would hurt but I could cope, losing the whole price of the Grenadier would not be at all funny. Money paid to a company is not usually ring fenced. Some reassurance from Ineos Grenadier would be nice.

Depends. If you've paid by credit card (ouch, mine's got a £5k limit!) you might be protected. If by any other means, it'll be dependent on the administration mob. Some do, most don't acknowledge title to the thing being bought.
Howver, the thought of Ineos going bust boggles the mind (a bit) but on second thoughts they must have firewalled the grenadier connection from the main stuff, so I guess there's that chance. It's the leap of faith time!!!!

 

[Clunster]

Depends. If you've paid by credit card (ouch, mine's got a £5k limit!) you might be protected. If by any other means, it'll be dependent on the administration mob. Some do, most don't acknowledge title to the thing being bought.
Howver, the thought of Ineos going bust boggles the mind (a bit) but on second thoughts they must have firewalled the grenadier connection from the main stuff, so I guess there's that chance. It's the leap of faith time!!!!

Seriously? INEOS makes about £3bn in profit each year.

 

[Shopkeep]

Sorry, but talk of bankruptcy/receivership/administration is complete and utter bollocks. Hold fast, they are busy solving QC issues and getting ready for a launch on Feb 8th. They are relying on their retail agents / dealers to mollycoddle the customers while they get on with launching a cracking product. If you are going weak at the knees worrying about your $5k then you should not have placed a deposit on a start up car venture, ask for your cash back and go and buy a known quantity such as a Ford.

 

[OGrid]

Sorry, but talk of bankruptcy/receivership/administration is complete and utter bollocks. Hold fast, they are busy solving QC issues and getting ready for a launch on Feb 8th. They are relying on their retail agents / dealers to mollycoddle the customers while they get on with launching a cracking product. If you are going weak at the knees worrying about your $5k then you should not have placed a deposit on a start up car venture, ask for your cash back and go and buy a known quantity such as a Ford.

Ford, which I read yesterday have closed their 2023 order book for the Ford Bronco.

2023 Ford Bronco buyers paid $US2500 to choose another car

Ford is paying a $US2500 cash incentive to get Bronco buyers in the US to switch to another model within the Ford line-up.

www.drive.com.au

 

[MrMike]

You have appreciate that people purchasing for business might have to plan a little more specifically than those purchasing for leisure use.
If deliveries are slipping now will this impact those who were advised delivery march/april/may? There are tax issues to be considered and disposal of existing work vehicles, some of which may have specific lease contract end dates or mileage limits.

Maybe but why not communicate that? Customers and dealers seem to be left in the dark, particularly as it is a departure from what they originally ad

Maybe but why not communicate that? Customers and dealers seem to be left in the dark, particularly as it is a departure from what they originally advised.

Ordered anew Toyota lately? They have a world wide network of dealers and production plants. I ordered a new Toyota and got "0" for well over 12 months, nothing from the dealer either. What you are suggesting in your original post is supposition. We all know that lack of communication it's not good enough, but at least we can see them being distributed now.

 

[trobex]

Interest rates are rising in Australia and a few people (lots) are coming to a debt and interest repayment cliff. I expect LC300's 2nd hand to show up more frequently this year (quite a bit more!). Plys other cars of course.

 

[To]

Sorry, but talk of bankruptcy/receivership/administration is complete and utter bollocks. Hold fast, they are busy solving QC issues and getting ready for a launch on Feb 8th. They are relying on their retail agents / dealers to mollycoddle the customers while they get on with launching a cracking product. If you are going weak at the knees worrying about your $5k then you should not have placed a deposit on a start up car venture, ask for your cash back and go and buy a known quantity such as a Ford.

What is actually to be presented on 8 Feb? Everything is known. It's clear that the press will only be allowed to report on test drives then. But such a report from the USA is already available. Except for Switzerland, obviously no cars have been delivered so far. Will Ineos then present fully loaded car transporters with our Grenadiers to the press? All a little strange to me. I need the damn car, it's cold out there.

 

[marko]

What is actually to be presented on 8 Feb? Everything is known. It's clear that the press will only be allowed to report on test drives then. But such a report from the USA is already available. Except for Switzerland, obviously no cars have been delivered so far. Will Ineos then present fully loaded car transporters with our Grenadiers to the press? All a little strange to me. I need the damn car, it's cold out there.

Good point. We know the press will be able to publish their reviews on 8th Feb (which I'm very much looking forward to reading) but we may be a bit over optimistic in thinking INEOS Automotive customer communications are going to be put into overdrive the same day!

 

[Clunster]

What is actually to be presented on 8 Feb? Everything is known. It's clear that the press will only be allowed to report on test drives then. But such a report from the USA is already available. Except for Switzerland, obviously no cars have been delivered so far. Will Ineos then present fully loaded car transporters with our Grenadiers to the press? All a little strange to me. I need the damn car, it's cold out there.

The 8th is important as it's the first time production cars will have been driven and assessed. The results of those reviews will define the demand, production schedule, future investment in IA, residual values etc etc. Bad reviews will lead many with orders/contracts to dump them (so some might get their vehicle sooner!), good reviews will pave the way for the 2023 North American marketing of Grenadier and other variants, like pick-up, worldwide.
As your vehicle is in production I expect you will be enjoying it around March/early April so the reviews mean little in your case.

 

[das mo]

What is actually to be presented on 8 Feb? Everything is known. It's clear that the press will only be allowed to report on test drives then. But such a report from the USA is already available. Except for Switzerland, obviously no cars have been delivered so far. Will Ineos then present fully loaded car transporters with our Grenadiers to the press? All a little strange to me. I need the damn car, it's cold out there.

For me personally it is more about the third party providers finally being allowed to show what they made and plan for the Grenadier in terms of racks, gear and goodies.

 

[rovie]

Good point. We know the press will be able to publish their reviews on 8th Feb (which I'm very much looking forward to reading) but we may be a bit over optimistic in thinking INEOS Automotive customer communications are going to be put into overdrive the same day!

Wait and see. Just believe in it.

 

[marko]

Wait and see. Just believe in it.

I want to believe, but …..

 

[Tazzieman]

I want to believe, but …..

Praying only works if you get down on both knees

 

[muxmax]

I have a friend who has a strange habit of pissing people off first and seeing if they stay interested in him before he befriends them. Seems like Ineos is using the same strategy to separate the wheat from the chaff before delivery and create a loyal following. Dangerous strategy, in my opinion.

 

[globalgregors]

I reckon this could prove to be the straw man thread for the polemicists amongst us equivalent to the joke thread that we have for the comics, the flag thread we have for the patriots, and the beer thread we have for the yeasty beverage fans.

 

[Tazzieman]

I reckon this could prove to be the straw man thread for the polemicists amongst us equivalent to the joke thread that we have for the comics, the flag thread we have for the patriots, and the beer thread we have for the yeasty beverage fans.

Well that's one argument for separating the wheat from the chaff. Here's cheers