Fusilier On Hold???

[AnD3rew]

I can’t find it now, but just saw an article in German I think on Magna Steyr saying they were in trouble as INEOS has pulled out of their contract for the Fusilier and putting Fusilier on hold. Big problems for Magna as Fiskar recently pulled out as well.

 

[TanisIndependentTraders]

story says INEOS told MAGNA it will not produce it at that plant and that the project is on hold so INEOS could concentrate the brand on the Grenny and FM.

 

[grenadierguy]

story says INEOS told MAGNA it will not produce it at that plant and that the project is on hold so INEOS could concentrate the brand on the Grenny and FM.

Got the link to the story for the rest of us? Thanks!

 

[trobex]

Fired because they designed a massive footwell intrusion in the RHD version!!!

 

[Jérémie]

Just saw this post : https://www.facebook.com/groups/274561760287311/posts/1132387357838076/

The British car manufacturer Ineos is ending the development of the planned electric off-road vehicle at the Magna factory in Graz and is canceling production of the Fusilier. The “Kleine Zeitung” reported this online on Tuesday. Magna International confirmed that Ineos had decided to cancel the contract manufacturing project in Graz. They respect the decision, but will not announce any further details. The bankruptcy of the US manufacturer Fisker was already a setback for the Graz factory.

Around 300 employees have to bank for their jobs

According to “Kleine Zeitung”, the CEO of the Ineos car division, Lynn Calder, personally informed the Magna leadership about the company’s decision in Graz. Almost 300 people have been working on the development in Graz for two years and are now worried about their jobs. The production of up to 30,000 pieces per year would have secured around 2,000 jobs. Ineos not only stopped the development of the electric off-road vehicle, but also canceled production of the third model series, which should have rolled off the Magna production line from 2027.

Magna boss: “We are now discussing the next steps”

The boss of Magna Steyr, Roland Prettner, confirmed the end to the newspaper when asked: "We have been informed by Ineos about your decision, respect it and discuss the necessary next steps with the customer." Magna Steyr is now "actively collaborating." existing and potential new customers on several projects”.
The reasons for the withdrawal

The decisive factor for the withdrawal is said to have been the business case, the forecasts and dubious profitability, which recently spoke against the construction of the electric Ineos. The slump in sales on the electric car market influenced the decision. The Fusillier, intended as an entry-level model from Ineos and presented in London just a few weeks ago, is being put on hold for the time being, according to the newspaper. Apparently they want to concentrate on global sales of the two models Grenadier and Quartermaster in order to consolidate the brand on the market.

Magna International remains optimistic

When asked, Magna International said: “Despite this setback, we are actively in discussions with existing and potential customers to pursue new business opportunities. As one of the largest contract manufacturers, we have confidence in our skills and expertise and are optimistic about securing new projects.” (APA/red, July 2, 24)

 

[Walter]

This is a good decision. Focus on Grenadier!!! It will benefit all the owners and Ineos moving forward.

 

[rovie]

I do wonder whether it was Ineos' decision alone, or whether Magna is not also involved. It's pure speculation on my part, but perhaps production capacities are not sufficient.
Here is the background. I have decided to buy another towing vehicle. Not a second Grenadier, however, but a G-model. I went to a few dealers last week. They all said that it was sold out everywhere.
We had the same thing about 1-2 years ago. In the meantime, it was probably also available. Now I hear from insiders that a new G-model will probably be coming next year. I'm disappointed and have now put my name on the reservation list.
Let's wait and see what else we hear in the coming weeks.

 

[AWo]

Translate by KI as required:

Hätte 2000 Arbeitsplätze gesichert: Ineos zieht in Graz den Stecker: Doch keine Auto-Fertigung bei Magna

Nächster Schock für Magna Steyr: Die junge britische Automarke Ineos stoppt die Entwicklung des geplanten Elektro-Geländewagens in Graz und sagt auch die Fertigung des Fusilier ab. Die Ineos-Produktion von bis zu 30.000 Stück pro Jahr hätte 2000 Arbeitsplätze gesichert.

www.kleinezeitung.at

AWo

 

[Aussie Battler]

This is a good decision. Focus on Grenadier!!! It will benefit all the owners and Ineos moving forward.

A great decision , why do you think most of the major manufactures are either quitting or scaling back ev development and production ? Evs are sending them broke . As grenadier owners this can only be good

 

[AWo]

Yes, the E-car market is under great pressure. Used e-cars are stuck at the dealers as no one wants to buy the risk of changing the batteries in the near future while the price of new e-cars drops, forced by Teslas price decreases. In addition many had a not so good experience with e-cars. In Germany the tax promotion run out, lacking infrastructure etc. etc..

If you read the automotive press you find a lot of stops and holds and cancelations at the OEMs.

However, but that is just a feeling, it reads as if that was not a friendly cancellation. It seems that the cooperation with Magna is completely cancelled, not only the Fusilier.

IMHO, IA took the right decision. However, from my point of view, that raises a problem. As I already wrote, the Grenadier and the Quartermaster are the only modells from IA. Having a Fusilier or another third or fourth modell to be able to offer alternatives for the existing modells is important to get customers buying an Ineos. Now they have to rely on the existing niche and expensive modells. Opening the market in China and focussing on the US may help to bridge the time until another modell is available. Ineos stated to do so, focussing on China and the US. It will be interesting to see what that means for the presence in Europe.

AWo

 

[DaveB]

Yes, the E-car market is under great pressure. Used e-cars are stuck at the dealers as no one wants to buy the risk of changing the batteries in the near future while the price of new e-cars drops, forced by Teslas price decreases. In addition many had a not so good experience with e-cars. In Germany the tax promotion run out, lacking infrastructure etc. etc..

However, but that is just a feeling, it reads as if that was not a friendly cancellation. It seems that the cooperation with Magna is completely cancelled, not only the Fusilier.

If you read the automotive press you find a lot of stops and holds and cancelations at the OEMs.

IMHO, IA took the right decision. However, from my point of view, that raises a problem. As I already wrote, the Grenadier and the Quartermaster are the only modells from IA. Having a Fusilier or another third or fourth modell to be able to offer alternatives for the existing modells is important, to get customers buying an Ineos. Now the have to rely to the existing niche and expensive modells. Opening the market in China and focussing onthe US may help to bridge the time until another modell is available. Ineos stated to do so, focussing on China and the US. It will be interesting to see what that means for the presence in Europe.

AWo

The electrical infrastructure is also a major problem.
This sort of stuff wouldn't be allowed for any other reason as it would be a tripping hazard in a public place.
In Australia due to the extreme distances and limited population electricity distribution is expensive and limited.
I read at one location it would take 33 hours to charge a vehicle from 10 % to 90% due to restrictions.

 

[Shaky]

Why would you buy an electric car if you lived or were forced to charge in the above circumstances is beyond me. However I might have considered the cable in a tree version as viable

Hopefully if this is a complete fall out between Magna and IA, it doesn’t have any further repercussions down the road. I think entering the electric car market or even spending money on development at this time a sure fire way to get burned.

 

[DaveB]

Why would you buy an electric car if you lived or were forced to charge in the above circumstances is beyond me. However I might have considered the cable in a tree version as viable

Hopefully if this is a complete fall out between Magna and IA, it doesn’t have any further repercussions down the road. I think entering the electric car market or even spending money on development at this time a sure fire way to get burned.

In Australia "metrosexuals" are generally in favour of EV's and they also mainly live in high density urban and city centre area's.
They often share so there are 2-3 couples in an apartment or townhouse.
In trendy area's there are also a lot of terrace houses with limited or no off street parking so.......no other options.

 

[AWo]

Magna is known for changing from the first suppliers after the first years to cheaper suppliers to save costs (with an for me unknown effect on quality). That network might be lost for Ineos.

However, looking back Magna-Steyr (not Magna Drivetrain) rejected to work with Ineos in the beginning. Magna was the partner they would liked to have for development, also as Alexander Quindt, head of development, was a Magna G-Wagon guy before he joined Ineos. Many tests were made in Graz, also the BMW engines were shown to JR there,

But as they produce the Jaguar F-Pace and they feared that they loose the love of JLR, not knowing what to receive with Ineos. And Magna was good for Ineos as they brought professionalism to the project (the automotive industry is not used to exchange information via Excel sheets and some of the Ineos engineers seemed to be second or third row). When Ineos was far behind the schedule, they brought substantial progress into the project. Later, when BMW and ZF has joined and Magna Drivetrain has already become a partner, Magna seemed to be more convinced that this project is a serious one. They finally joined the project as the partner to transform the prototypes into a production-vehicles

It will be interesting how Ineos continues here without the expertise of Magna.

AWo

 

[bigleonski]

The Chinese are expected to produce 10 Million EV’s in 2024 for both domestic and international markets, and they are heavily subsidized by the state.
How do you compete with that, even if you have better quality? Car manufacturers will make and sell them at a loss.
I also have a view that current EV technology will quickly be replaced by something more sustainable and efficient, and so in 10 years time current EV’s will be worth leas than paperweights.
Not a lot of incentive to buy one inmy opinion, let alone manufacture one.

 

[Jeremy996]

Having read the whole article, https://www.kleinezeitung.at/wirtsc...ung-bei-magna-ineos-zieht-in-graz-den-stecker, (thanks @AWo and Google Translate), I see that the explanation given is "no business case", as the additional vehicle is projected to be unprofitable.

I'd guess the situation is a bit like the James Dyson car, massive costs, uncertain incomes and the ability to cut your losses at an early stage.

(As I did the copy and pasting, here is a Google translation of the whole article).

"Ineos unplugs in Graz: But no car production at Magna

Next shock for Magna Steyr: The young British car brand Ineos stops the development of the planned electric off-road vehicle in Graz and also cancels the production of the fuselier. The Ineos production of up to 30,000 pieces per year would have secured 2000 jobs.

The momentous Fisker disaster is followed by the next bad news for Magna Steyr: The British start-up Ineos Automotive is withdrawing from Graz with immediate effect. Lynn Calder, the CEO of the car division, personally delivered the bad news and informed the Magna top in Graz about the group's decision.

According to this, Ineos in Graz not only stops the development of the electric off-road vehicle, but also cancels the production of the third model series, which should have run off the production line at Magna from 2027. Almost 300 employees have been employed in the development in Graz for two years, who now have to worry about their job. The production of up to 30,000 pieces per year would have secured 2000 jobs.

Roland Prettner, head of Magna Steyr, confirms the stop to the Kleine Zeitung on request: "We are informed by Ineos about their decision, respect it and discuss the necessary next steps with the customer." Magna Steyr is now "actively working with existing and potential new customers on several projects". Prettner: "As one of the largest contract manufacturers, we trust in our skills and experience and are optimistic about winning further projects."

Doubtful profitability

The decisive factor for the withdrawal was the business case, the forecasts and dubious profitability had recently spoken against the construction of the electric Ineo. The slump in the electric car market has influenced the decision. The fusilier, intended as an entry-level model of Ineos and presented only a few weeks ago in London, is being put on hold for the time being.

This is why owner Jim Ratcliffe has by no means questioned Ineos' car plans. The British billionaire has ordered to focus on the global sales of the two models Grenadier and Quartermaster for the time being in order to consolidate the brand on the market and make it visible. The focus is on the USA, and the sale is also to take place in China soon. Both vehicles are built in the former smart plant in Hambach, France.

Search for alternatives

The terrain giant Grenadier, with which Ineos started in 2022, has already been developed for series production at Magna in Graz. This year, Ineos wants to build at least 25,000 vehicles.

What it will cost Ineos to get out of the various contracts is not yet clear. Magna now places hopes on Chinese car manufacturers, among other things, some negotiations for development and production should be promising. And as you can hear, the Chinese (Chery, Geely) are also supposed to be interested in joining Magna."

 

[Tom D]

EV resale values are not good, we have had a tesla model 3 for 5 years now, its a nice car but it has depreciated pretty harshly. Not half as bad as most EV's though, I dread to think what a 5 year old KIA or Hyundai EV would have lost.
I agree that a new version of EV needs to come. Battery EV's have limitations for sure. Having said that if you have two cars one BEV is actually a pretty good option, so long as the other is ICE. BEV for the school run and daily trips and ICE for longer journeys, works well for us.

The BEV with range extender might be the answer..

 

[bigleonski]

EV resale values are not good, we have had a tesla model 3 for 5 years now, its a nice car but it has depreciated pretty harshly. Not half as bad as most EV's though, I dread to think what a 5 year old KIA or Hyundai EV would have lost.
I agree that a new version of EV needs to come. Battery EV's have limitations for sure. Having said that if you have two cars one BEV is actually a pretty good option, so long as the other is ICE. BEV for the school run and daily trips and ICE for longer journeys, works well for us.

The BEV with range extender might be the answer..

Agree about the second car scenario, although right now I’d consider a hybrid, not an EV.

 

[AWo]

The Chinese are expected to produce 10 Million EV’s in 2024 for both domestic and international markets, and they are heavily subsidized by the state.

The last BYD's own ship full of BYD's wasn't even unloaded in Bremerhaven, Germany, as there was no place to unload it. The space was occupied by e-cars not sold. The cars were moulding and BYD had no process in place for that (yet), as this is not uncommon. The ship just went away after some weeks...

AWo

 

[Tazzieman]

Fired because they designed a massive footwell intrusion in the RHD version!!!

You need to get a good mechanic! You even get titanium screws and billet plates.
"In patients who are finished growing, the longer limb can sometimes be shortened to even out the leg lengths.

To do this, the doctor removes a section of bone from the middle of the longer limb, then inserts metal plates and screws or a rod to hold the bone in place while it heals."